Lexus GS 430 torque steer


Hello everybody
I own a 2002 GS 430. I owned a GS300 before.The GS 430 is becoming a very
quaint car. Irritating. Driven at speed, up to 90 mph, it holds the road
reasonably well , as might be expected, but the steering is too vague and
lacks in sharpness.
Over 90 mph, let us say at 110 mph, the steering lacks precision, the car
seems twitchy , ESP kicks in ( on dry , straight , even roads), braking the
car, and it does not follow a straight track. With moderate wind, it veers
off and shudders, struggling to cope. Tha car suffers from torque steer, as
if the steering can not cope with all the power . I experienced something
similar with another previous car, a rear wheel drive 1986 204 bhp Ford
Sierra Cosworth .
Tyres are fine, camber and caster are fine, there is no imbalance on
either axle. It has standard Lexus-recommended 235 ZR, s. My dealer is
unhelpful.
Mercedes and BMW´s pass me with apparent ease at 120 mph, while I am
struggling to keep the damned car on the road. This was made to be an
executive car, with a big engine. So are Mercedes and Audis. And before you
jump to any conclusions on my driving abilities, I have over one million
miles under my belt, mostly on fast cars.
My GS 300 was fetter better composed, precise and predictable than this.It
is sorely missed.
Has anyone experienced this? Any suggestions? Why is the steering so dead?
. My own brother, with a 2006 GS 300 , complains of the same thing.
Thanks for your time and interest.
Reply to
Enrique Quijano
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On Mar 28, 12:21 pm, "Enrique Quijano" wrote:   Any suggestions?
Test drive a new GS. If it has the same problem, you probably won't be able to fix it in your older one.
Why is the steering so dead?
'Cause it's a Lexus. Why'd you buy a car with dead steering?
So your dad didn't teach you or your brother how to test drive a car before you buy.
Despite your claim regarding tires, I suspect your tires are junk. Buy a decent set from Tire Rack.
Reply to
ACAR
ACAR Thank you for your answer. It has been most unhelpful.
Contrary to what you dismissively assert, not all Lexus have dead steering. My GS was a lively car which kept you in touch with the road, instead of insulating you from it . I kept it for 8 years and over 90.000 miles. It never failed to deliver on good ride and performance. And yes, I did test drive the GS 430. My father taught me to test drive cars prior to purchasing them, along with many other things, like toe and heel shifting, fast mountain road driving, and passed on to me an overall interest in all things automotive.I just did not drive it up on my test drive to 120 mph.As I said, it had an acceptable ride up to 90 mph. I assumed, wrongly, that it would be an improved version of the GS 300. He also taught me to be polite to strangers, something your own father obviously failed to do with you. And my tyres are not "junk", even though you seem to know better, which, obviously, you don´t. And I live in Europe. There is no such thing as Tire Rack here.Not that I would need it, anyway.
"ACAR" escribió en el mensaje news: snipped-for-privacy@w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... On Mar 28, 12:21 pm, "Enrique Quijano" wrote: Any suggestions?
Test drive a new GS. If it has the same problem, you probably won't be able to fix it in your older one.
Why is the steering so dead?
'Cause it's a Lexus. Why'd you buy a car with dead steering?
So your dad didn't teach you or your brother how to test drive a car before you buy.
Despite your claim regarding tires, I suspect your tires are junk. Buy a decent set from Tire Rack.
Reply to
Enrique Quijano
I wasn't going to reply until I saw the unhelpful post I had a 1998 400 with some 90k miles I saw none of your symptoms, up to 140mph Generally, I would expect such symptoms to be with worn bushes, or shocks, on the front end. You stated toe in & camber was correct, was this checked at a reliable workshop? The first thing I did on purchase was to have these checked, and adjusted, as tyre wear led me to suspect a problem Braking from high speed exhibited no problems, even prior to having the disks replaced ESP never kicked in except in wet/bad conditions This side of the pond my local Lexus is most helpfull, even with an old model not supplied by them Where are you located? I disposed of my LS400 & purchased an MB S Class - seriously bad move!
Reply to
OldMan
On Mar 28, 9:21 am, "Enrique Quijano" wrote:
You said camber and caster are fine, but what about toe settings? That would affect straight line stability more than either of those. Also, what are the condition of the front ball joints.
When you said ESP is kicking in - assuming you mean the VSC (vehicle skid control in the USA) - do you mean the buzzer sounds and the VSC light flashes? This should only happen when the yaw rate sensor detects excessive sideways-type motion indicating imminent over or under steer. The sensor may be malfunctioning due to electrical interference caused by cel phones, as I believe the yaw rate sensor is located in the center armrest area and that is where many people place their cel phones.
Has the Lexus dealer verified your concerns? What did they recommend?
Reply to
greg
Hi. Thanks for your answer. It is probably a suspension problem, I will eventually have to take it down to a reliable mechanic, all the wheel alignment and camber/caster work was done at a tyre shop around the corner, and in my experience one usually comes across more incompetent mechanics tah one does good ones, the hitch with Lexus being people usually drive them in a leisurely way and these glitches rarely, if ever, crop up. This is a second hand car, I, unfortunately, crashed the GS 300, nothing to do with reckless driving or excessive speed. The car probably saved my life, but a new GS 430 was way out of my then financial limit, and I settled for this. I have this sinking feeling it has been involved in a major crash and put back together shodilly, although my enquiries have so far run up against a blank wall. I live in Brussels, Belgium. I am from Spain. All those high speeds are somehow common around here, although the law is becoming more and more of a nuisance. I?d be delighted to hear from your MB experience. I always assumed they were good cars, and used S class go here for a song, what with the crisis and all. But, I remember this German guy I crossed at a gas station , he was driving a MB 500, I was on a Saab 9000 turbo, considering a Lexus, Saabs are the stuff of nightmares, and the fellow told me Lexus was far better then MB and he was trading his for a Lexus GA 300 shortly. What went wrong with yours? Cheers Enrique Quijano
----- Original Message ----- From: "OldMan" Newsgroups: alt.autos.lexus Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:38 AM Subject: Re: Lexus GS 430 torque steer
"OldMan" escribio en el mensaje news:NHcAl.78971$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe09.ams...
Reply to
Enrique Quijano
I'm in the UK; previously had MB 300TD E Class, from new, then a 220 CDI E from new both had some 100k miles on them after 3 & 4 years whilst I had no particular problems with the cars, but I found them an uncomfortable drive. The only problems I had were with the MB UK dealers who charge extortionate rates. In the end I used to pop over to France and had the car serviced at the MB dealer there - really nice people & about third the price of UK, and the MB guarantee was still valid. I then bought the Lexus 400, as I dont do too many miles now. I had no problem with the car, excepting I started to get a slight front end vibration on braking, the workshop (Lexus specialist) said disks required replacement. However next service the vibration was back, this time they said disks were warped, and were replaced under warranty. - I'm not a heavy on the brakes - coming up to the next service the vibration was back. So since the car didnt actually have the full service history it was supposed to have when I purchased it I part exchanged it for an 2003 S class 320cdi, low mileage car, full MB history. The car is comfortable to drive, the Nav system is not a patch on the Lexus sys, has some niggling probs in that warnings keep on comming & going - nothing actually wrong - I had the torque convertor fail within the first 1k miles, cost £2k approx, now taking seller to court to recover costs I'm given to understand that MB cars made after 2004 or so got there reliability/ build quality back, after throwing out the accountants / cost saving experts good luck PS A friend who has a business in Spain, for some years, tells me its really grim out there now, business wise.
Reply to
OldMan
Some reviews say the IS does the same thing. Rear drive cars don't really have a torque steer problem as in front drives, because the propeller shaft is located in the center of the driveline. So maybe Toyota's drivetrains are crooked, and that points to poor engineering.
I'd say trade that junk in for a BMW or Mercedes. At least you'll get a true luxury car.
On Mar 28, 9:21 am, "Enrique Quijano" wrote:
Reply to
johngdole
Sure, MB has some quality lapses, but they seem focused on solving those. See the following Business Week report:
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That said, if unlike the Lexus IS (new cars) torque steer problem, your GS started this later, then check the ball joints. Worn ball joints can cause toe changes, and the results common to Lexus LS wheels coming off can happen.
According to the discussions in Club Lexus, these weak ball joints are common on the Lexus LS. See:
formatting link
Reply to
johngdole
Yeah, I think Greg point to a potentially dangerous failure commonly known on the Lexus LS. If the ball joint seizes/fails Enrique could loose steering control !!
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> On Mar 28, 9:21 am, "Enrique Quijano" > wrote: > > > > > Hello everybody > > I own a 2002 GS 430. I owned a GS300 before.The GS 430 is becoming a very > > quaint car. Irritating.  Driven at speed, up to 90 mph, it holds the road > > reasonably well , as might be expected, but the steering is too vague and > > lacks in sharpness. > > Over 90 mph, let us say at 110  mph,  the steering lacks precision, the car > > seems twitchy , ESP kicks in ( on dry , straight , even roads), braking the > > car, and it does not follow a straight track.  With moderate wind, it veers > > off and shudders, struggling to cope.  Tha car suffers from torque steer, as > > if the steering can not cope with  all the power . I experienced something > > similar with another previous car, a  rear wheel drive  1986  204 bhp Ford > > Sierra Cosworth . > > Tyres are fine, camber and caster are fine, there is no imbalance  on > > either axle. It has standard Lexus-recommended 235 ZR, s. My dealer  is > > unhelpful. > > Mercedes and BMW´s pass me with  apparent ease at 120 mph, while I am > > struggling to keep the damned car on the road. This was made to be an > > executive car, with a big engine. So are Mercedes and Audis. And before you > > jump to  any conclusions on my driving abilities,  I have over one million > > miles under my belt, mostly  on fast cars. > > My GS 300 was fetter better composed, precise and predictable than this.It > > is sorely missed. > > Has anyone experienced this?   Any suggestions? Why is the steering so dead? > > . My own brother, with a 2006 GS  300 , complains of the same thing. > > Thanks for your time  and interest. > > You said camber and caster are fine, but what about toe settings? That > would affect straight line stability more than either of those.  Also, > what are the condition of the front ball joints. > > When you said ESP is kicking in - assuming you mean the VSC (vehicle > skid control in the USA) - do you mean the buzzer sounds and the VSC > light flashes? This should only happen when the yaw rate sensor > detects excessive sideways-type motion indicating imminent over or > under steer. The sensor may be malfunctioning due to electrical > interference caused by cel phones, as I believe the yaw rate sensor is > located in the center armrest area and that is where many people place > their cel phones. > > Has the Lexus dealer verified your concerns? What did they recommend?
Reply to
johngdole

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