Re: Lexus ES330 vs Camry XLE

The major differences between a Lexus and a Camry are as follows:
- Variations of engine design (VVTi vs. non VVTi) - Transmission type (4 speed auto vs. 5 speed auto)
- increased creature comforts - Fit and finish is improved
Having said that, I know of a few people who opted for a fully loaded Camry instead of the Lexus and put the savings into a higher level of maintenance (i.e. Mobil 1 oil changes, more rigorious maintenance practices, etc.) Mind you these people have other Lexus models as well (i.e. SC400, LS 400, SC430, LS 430).
Also keep in mind that maintenance on Lexus vehicles are considerably more expensive at the dealer then a Toyota vehicle. At my local dealership in Toronto, Canada, a oil change is $29.95 for my 2002 Camry LE V6. The Lexus dealer charges $59.95 for the same service. I get better donuts and other frills, but for $30 savings, I can get a hell of a lot of donuts.
Other services and maintenance items are more expensive. So if you are willing to get a better built car and pay for the upkeep, then the Lexus is the better. If you want to save the $$ and get a fully loaded Camry and do the same level of maintenance, then that is also good. How will the cars be in 10 years.... I would say about the same.

are
them.
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I don't think this is correct. The Camry V6's are VVTi and 5-speed autos. I don't think there is any significant difference in the running gear - it's all styling, interior and trim.
- Mark
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Having driven both, I would opine that the ES330 is quieter and smoother than the Camry.
Both are excellent and reliable cars. I would say that if price and regular maintance cost is the primary factor, go for the Camry. If comfort and quiet is important, give the nod to the ES330.
You really can't go wrong with either car.
I currently drive an '03 LS430.
Helmar Herman
wrote:

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Car Guy wrote:

The Lexus $60 oil-change included an engine-flush when I had it done. Not sure if that is standard practice at all Lexus dealerships. (The Toyota $30 oil-change doesn't include an engine-flush)
And the Lexus Sevice Consultants wear ties, while the Toyota Service Consultants wear Toyota T-Shirts. Some people prefer dealing with people who wear ties. I prefer someone who can explain why the hell my ES300 brakes squeal so bad when the rotors/brakes get hot, and the guys with the ties didn't quite make the grade. My ES300 is still under factory warranty.
The Lexus lounge is much nicer, but the free muffins are sub-standard. The old geysers in the Lexus lounge are always trying to make a pass at young woman who works behind the beverage bar in the lounge, but they don't if their wife is in the lounge with them.
I enjoy people-watching in the Lexus lounge. I don't get a chance to do that in the Toyota dealership since my 1988 Camry hardly needs anything except the regular 29-minute oil-change.
But I get a loaner vehicle that is newer than my 2000 ES300 if I have to leave my Lexus at the dealership. I have had a loaner 2002 ES300 for 5 days, and a 2003 RX330 for 1 day. Very nice cars (especially the latter), but I personally wouldn't spend approx $35K on either car. I even had a Ford Mustang for 1 day. I think the Lexus dealerships loan you a Ford to make you appreciate your Lexus.
But I enjoyed "playing" with the 2002 ES 300 transmission. Very easy to demonstrate, but do not try this if there is anyone else near you: Accelerate gently to about 30mph, then push the accelerator hard and watch the RPM go up to about 5K, but no accelaration whatsoever for a couple of seconds. So you now know what not to do in emergency situations with the 2002 model.
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don't if

you:
the
model.
Oh, by the way genius, it's geezer, not geyser! A geyser is a hot spring that intermittently sends up fountainlike jets of water and steam into the air. Sorta' like yuppies that like to try and destroy someone else's new transmission in a loaner car. But then again, spell checker will let that one go through, but you have to have a basic knowledge of English grammar to know the difference between the two words, right? <LOL>
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noyap wrote:

Maybe you can explain why my 2000 ES300 doesn't exhibit the same behavior under similar conditions. And my 1988 V6 Camry doesn't either.
If running that test to get an idea of the strange performance characteristics of the 2002 ES300 will ruin its transmission, I urge everyone here to buy an Acura instead. Better to figure out how it works in real life than to find out that it doesn't in an emergency situation, IMHO.

Grammar? Or diction?
This AOL newsgroup tool doesn't have a spell checker, FYI.
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to
OK, OK, AOL doesn't have a spell checker, but what happened in high school? Or, grade school, for that matter? Diction refers chiefly to the choice of words, their arrangement, and the force, accuracy, and distinction with which they are used. There is a difference between geyser and geezer! <LOL> Grammar, among other things, refers to the study of the formal features of a language, as to the sounds, words, or sentence structure. Oh well, the dumbing down of America goes on.............<G>
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Engine flushes are not necessary and some think they do more harm than good.
- Mark
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markjen wrote:

The Lexus dealership did one on my 2000 ES300 the first time I brought it in. Maybe it was because the previous owner had missed the 30K service. But the oil didn't look like it was too old.
I have heard that the chemicals used in some flushes can wear out engine seals prematurely, or can cause large chunks of sludge to get dislodged and plug up something else inside the engine.
Anyway, my car still runs fine for now.
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you do not need to use hi test fuel in the camry like you do with the lexus.
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Thudd wrote:

I could be wrong on this, but I think some engines (like the newer Lexuses) have the ability to dynamically advance/retard the timing to compensate for the fuel grade (ie. octane) used.
The owners manual for my 2000 ES 300 lists 87 and 91 octane as acceptable. I haven't tried 87 octane in my ES 300 yet.
On my 1988 V6 Camry, I don't see any noticeable improvement using 91 octane. But I think it idles a little smoother on 91 though.
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If you get a V6 you should use premium fuel, just like in the lexus.

lexus.
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Been running my XLE on regular grade fuel for over two years now and I can not recall reading in the manual that it called for premium. Must double check. However regular grade here in Canada is of a higher octane than the lowest grade in the US I have found.
Does anyone know of the benefits of using premium gasoline other than I do recall on an earlier non GM prodeuct I had it did reduce engine knock so I would fuel with the good stuff every third or fourth tank.
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scribbled:

Our 'regular' grade octane here in New Zealand is 91 RON, while our 'premium' is 96 RON. You can also get 98 RON at selected petrol stations throughout the country.
-- Phillip Weston Taumarunui, New Zealand
Remove the obvious spamblock to reply via e-mail.
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2004 ES330 only needs regular (87 octane)
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:17:14 +1300, Phillip Weston

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On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:17:14 +1300, someone who calls themselves

That's probably Research Octane ratings. The US Pump Markings are in "Road Octane" which is (Research x Motor)/2 - they wanted a realistic number that is an average of the two measuring systems.
That gives us (for sea level to 2000' urban altitudes) regular at 87, mid-grade at 89, and Premium at 91 or 92. If you know where to go, there is pump racing gasoline available (at a steep premium) for your vintage muscle cars, usually 108 road octane.
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, POB 394, Woodland Hills CA 91365, USA
Electrician, Westend Electric (#726700) Agoura, CA
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Artfulcodger wrote:

    Had a 1997 Avalon with the 3.0l V6 and found it would ping like crazy on regular gas. Burned plus grade in it (not full premium) and pinging went away, also fuel economy actually improved enough to save money rather than scrime along on regular. Ran it this way for about 80k miles with no problems. -psmith
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My recollection is that the Camry V6 is the 3.0 and is de-tuned to produce about 180-190 HP on regular fuel. The ES300 has a higher compression ratio and produces about 210. The IS300 is goosed up a little more to 215. The RX300 is goosed to 220. Accordingly the Lexi (Lexuses?) require high octane.
Don't know about the 3.3.
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The IS (and the GS300 use a completely different engine. The block is the same straight 6 that was used in the old Supra, versus a V6 for the Camry/ES/RS. Allegedly the straight 6 is easily capable of putting out 600 hp in racing trim.
wrote:

--


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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Take a look ..... http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/01is300.htm
Lexus IS300 uses a 3.0 liter INLINE six cylinder mounted longitudinally and rear wheel drive. Camry and ES300 are 3.0 liter -V6- mounted transversely and front wheel drive.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
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