4x4 Environmentally Unfriendly?

Again you have little idea of what you are on about. Many vehicles have novel solutions to these problems, such as they are. Even the old style Discovery had a system which stiffened the suspension on the road while allowing massive articulation when needed. They hardly rolled at all in bends. My Land cruiser has such a system also which uses hydraulic rams connected to a central system with individual corner control mastered by a central processor. It self levels the vehicle forward to back and side to side in real time. Even the old Nissan Patrol has large anti role bars which are disengaged offroad if needed.

The centre of gravity is somewhat better for most of these than the original Mercedes A class I would have thought. If not their CoG then their stability is more than adequate. They are not sports cars on the whole however, although there are many biased in that direction. Each should be driven with due care and adaptation in style to match its characteristics, as indeed should each and every car of whatever type.

Huw

You snipped where I exposed *your* arguments as facile ("dogs like them", children like them", and "old people like them") and where you presumed to speak for others (comfort).

No, you were vulgar and crude. You expressed one tidy opinion in that you did not find 'them', uncomfortable. You are perfectly welcome to this feeling. I also find some models of all types of cars more comfortable than others, though the only group I can say this of in general is very low slung sports cars, which I try to avoid.

Huw

If you don't like vulgarity and crudeness, maybe the internet isn't for you, eh?

"I don't want a Ferrari, but a Land Rover Freelander makes me cum".

You don't think the fact that Rovers and Land Rovers aren't sold from the same showroom is that they're made by rival manufacturers? - Nothing to do with going towards solus Land Rover, more to do with Ford not wanting to sell one of their cars from the same showroom as a Rover.

What a wanker. It's 'happily sitting in a queue' that causes the most rage amongst other drivers. For a good reason, too. There's nothing more frustrating than being several cars back in a queue behind a slower driver (IME, this is usually an SUV driver at the front of the queue, too) and not being able to do anything about it because the car directly behind the driver at the front won't overtake when they can.

Thinking of 4x4s and getting angry being held up by one. I was once running late for work, and had to go down a few lanes. It had been raining heavily, and the road was partially flooded, must've been around a foot deep. Was stuck in a queue of about 4 cars, and at the front was an SUV.

The driver had driven to the edge of the puddle, gotten out, and looked at it. Eventually he got the courage to drive *very* slowly through it.

I was in a Mini, IIRC. I put the car into first, and drove through without a problem, keeping the speed low enough to stop a bow wave drowning my ignition, and high enough to prevent the engine dieing from water/ exhaust issues.

I wasn't best pleased that a go anywhere vehicle had delayed me 10 minutes to cross 100 foot of 1 foot deep water.

Huw (hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

I think you might be surprised.

Huw (hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Do you deliberately miss the point, or are you *really* that blinded by your love of the SUV?

If the unutterably crap Marina pickup was good enough, what's changed that all that offroad ability is now needed? It's not the landscape. It's not the ground conditions.

Huw (hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

You have *got* to stop talking to yourself, Huw.

Umm, no - the air suspension on *some* Discos was an unreliable heap of crap that was often removed in favour of the simple coil springs most had. I doubt there's many "classic" Rangie LSEs with it still fitted, and a lot of P38s have been retro-fitted with coils.

It "stiffened" the suspension only by lowering the ride height. Nothing cleverer than that.

Woo-hoo

How well's that going to work in fifteen years time, arse deep in soup? Or in the same fifteen years time when it's owned by some maintenance- free chav who's hooning it about?

How?

Relative to the track, that's really not difficult.

Wanna tell that to the marketing muppets?

But I don't love them. Love is best kept for someone special not a lump of metal. I run and have run many other types of vehicle and each has merit.

If you'd read the rest of my post it is explained in detail. Perhaps too much detail for your comprehension?

Just so you don't have to strain yourself, here is the rest of the post, which you snipped, again.

Quite frankly it was always crap and just a sniff of mud or wet would stop it, even a muddy road if it wasn't level. I did once run Morris

Huw

Discovery was fitted with air suspension to the back only on some models. This was not part of 'active cornering enhancement' so please do not try being clever when you are in fact relitively clueless. P38's never had a level cornering system.

See above.

Its done OK for the last seven and approaching 100,000 miles and I see no particular reason why it shouldn't do the same again. There is no regular maintenance involved with the system. What happens to it after I eventually finish with it is not a particular concern of mine.

Ask them. You obviously didn't know any of this so find out yourself. It is not brain surgery.

So what is the gripe with 4x4's? There are tens of thousands, millions even, in use on a daily basis worldwide with no particular problem for anybody.

Tell it to the marketing muppets of any type of car you wish to think of. All are subject to hype. They wouldn't sell with a line like "buy this car because it goes averagely well up to 70 and is OK but nothing special". Besides which I do not believe any large 4x4's are blatantly sold on ultimate road performance at the expense of other qualities, rather they are sold on a well rounded ability with advances in some areas. Maybe you can point one out though? Please feel free, but please don't use the latest Fiat Panda as a model because that is just a bit of fun advertising.

Huw

I think not.

Huw

No. LR might want an exclusive showroom but that is it. Rover is an endangered species. Their sales are in terminal decline AFAICS so not many in their right minds will invest substantially in upgrading their franchise. The example of Greens, who have kept them, and the other one who now majors in Skoda shows a substantial trend which I have witnessed in many other places. If the LR dealer had thought it worthwhile he would have kept Rover either in a separate showroom on the same site, which he has, or would have found another site. He dumped it. The new franchisee who has Vauxhall, Subaru, Ford and other dealerships has just removed the single Vauxhall he kept in a town showroom and replaced it with a Rover. How many other car manufacturers would give a franchise to a one car showroom with service facilities having to be shared at the Vauxhall site? FWIW the town has a dealership with VW, Peugeot and Mazda owned by one person. Greens has Peugeot, Mitsubishi, Land Rover and Jaguar at one site. Some showrooms are just separate sections of the same shed.

Huw

I agree. Usually a little old lady but not always. Luckily those 4x4's present a greater opportunity to overtake when appropriate due to their visibility over crests and such. An unhurried driving style does not mean hanging about and obstructing traffic. Glad we can agree on this.

Huw

Some people are just cautious. It is a good characteristic up to a point. You OTOH may either have known the road better or could assess the risk faster or were just rash but lucky.

Huw

They can say that the moon is made of green cheese. Some of mine certainly have dents and scratches. It the nature of their use. There is no particular reason for a road used 4x4 to have any more or less accidents than any other vehicle type.

Huw

I tollerate it but am not forced to respond in kind.

Just an observation. You are a vulgar little **** aren't you. You must be typing from school or be of about that age if you think it worthy of posting.

Huw

Huw (hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Are you Kev?