ABS Good or bad for stopping in snow?

In message , John writes

You are right. Stopping in snow is better without ABS because when you lock up, you build up a "wedge" of snow in front of the wheels which helps slow the car down.

On a similar vein, I find that my traction control is hopeless for pulling away from stationary in snow. There are times when you need a little wheel spin to get going and the TC stops you doing this. I find myself switching it off when I stop and switching it back on when I get moving again.

You're right. I found the same with my first car with ABS. I couldn't switch it off. The solution was to pull the ABS fuse to disable it. Mike.

Yep I find this too - used to live on a very steep hill which I used to get up in primitive old cars in the snow with little trouble - but with my modern TC equipped car it simply would apply more and more brake until it stalled the engine. Only way to get rolling up the hill was to switch it off. As you say, once some momentum has built up switching it on again is useful.

Stopping distances not much different. Don't disable your ABS, just drive more carefully and break earlier.

My Volvo was great in snow - allowed just enough wheelspin. Also meant that for a standing start from traffic lights it was pretty quick...

Hmm. It's true that snow can build up in front of a locked wheel and help you decelerate, however you have absolutely no control over the car with a locked wheel. You shouldn't drive such that you have no control.

If the ABS is being triggered you're braking too hard for the conditions...

it's there for a reason just because you are driving a car with abs doesn't mean you will stop quicker, you'll just have that little bit more control I remember driving abs inthe snow, all it does it lock up that much more often because the road surface is slipperier, opting to drive without abs is not really a viable option is it what about things like the next generation merc and proper fast cars like those with proper brakes? they wouldn't even come out in the snow in the first place is what :)

In message , DervMan writes

Or someone/something has stepped/driven out in front of you.

The average driver has never heard of cadence braking, never mind being skilled enough to use it in a crisis.

Paul Giverin ( snipped-for-privacy@giverin.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

You're still braking too hard. The shortest braking distance is just before the ABS kicks in. When the ABS starts to do it's do - the braking distance just lengthens. Think about it. It lifts off, back on, lifts off, back on. All those "lifts off" - it's not slowing you.

In message , Adrian writes

I do know that but we were talking about braking in snow and I think most drivers will tend to lock up if someone stepped out in front of them under those circumstances. I've only had my ABS kick in about 4 times in 6 years and all of those times were on icy or snowy roads.

Not true. I had a situation last year where I was braking down a slope in the snow, and the slightest touch of the brake invoked the ABS action. I simply rolled down the hill with the pedal kicking back at me all the way. Indeed I couldn't steer either. I really wanted to be able to lock up the wheels as that would have allowed me to slide across the road and avoid the traffic lights I was heading towards.

As it happens the slope levelled out towards the junction and I was able to steer around.

Having driven for 24 years, and also being one of the first people in the UK to be trained on ABS systems, I have only actually owned a car with ABS in the last 6 years. In all the time that I have driven cars with ABS I have not once been in a situation where that would have helped me gain control, or avoid an accident. In fact it's only ever been a possible cause of an accident.

It's no substitute for learning to control a car properly. I've even ridden a motorcycle in 2 inches of snow, which was still falling at the time, without even sliding, for 14 miles.

Yes. I specifically went looking for a car wihout ABS having been subjected to Ford's offering on the Mondeo

Andy Hewitt ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Eh? Either you were VERY late learning to drive or you were being trained on Dunlop Maxaret while you were still in nappies...

I've had a licence 17 years, yet I was still two years away from being born when the first production cars with ABS were available... Maxaret had been "about" for a decade and a half by then, too. My old man was still an apprentice in the early-mid 50s. He's retired now.

I was quite a way from having a licence when Ford started the real volume fitment in the mid 80s, but at least I was in the run-up to O-levels. I was definitely in primary school when Merc and Bosch "invented" it for the S- class, hitting production in 1978.

Where in that timeline do you fit in, Andy?

Chris Street ( snipped-for-privacy@chris-street.demon.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Just because Ford can't get it right doesn't mean others can't either.

I'd never have a daily car without ABS again.

The message from Paul Giverin contains these words:

Most drivers in snow tend to lock up no matter what. I went out to warm up the wife's car for her the other morning when it was icy and saw a crunch within 100 yards. Some arse coming down a hill didn't start braking till normal dry-road distances from the car waiting at the end of the road.

I started my apprenticeship in 1980, learnt to drive in 1981-2, and went on my first ABS course in 1984. The Honda Prelude 1.8EX was the first Honda to be fitted with ALB (as it was then), and IIRC was only about the 2nd car overall to have it fitted in production.

Andy Hewitt ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

So your first ABS course was thirty years after Dunlop invented ABS with Maxaret, 15 years after Maxaret was been fitted as standard to the Jensen FF, 6 years after Merc/Bosch claimed to be the first to put it into production in the S-class, roughly the same time Audi upgraded it from an option to standard on the Quattro and 200, and only a few months before Ford put it across the entire Mk 3 Granada range as standard at the start of '85?

Unfortunately, this thread has developed similarities with threads on u.r.driving, where the rissoles hang out (Posshibly miss-splet? - Ed.).

However, if you're interested in modern history, you will be pleased to know that anti-lock braking was first available on a production car in the 1920s.

They did not. Neither did Bosh, Audi, or Frod.