ABS Good or bad for stopping in snow?

Hmm.

I have a Mondeo Ghia X with ABS. Its anti-lock effects are indeed rather counter-productive in the snow.

Just one thing though: tramping on the anchors in snow or ice *might* stop you in time, or it might spin you round a full 180, making you look like a 'bit of a dong' (as Ali G would say).

I learnt this the tough way when I was a student in Nottingham, driving a student car (a Sierra 1.8 LX).

The solution that I came up with also works on cars equipped with ABS. Indeed it's particularly effective when you find yourself careering away downhill, with the ABS 'kicking back at you'.

• Use the Handbrake. Gently - and cadence style if you need to, to prevent the car spinning round.*

Not sure about everyone else, but I'd rather drag the back axle down a hill in snow, than the front 'un! Just a thought.

Safe driving...

Best

Al (IAM Member).

Indeed. The Wikipedia reference (which I assume you are reading) is somewhat incorrect. Although for a start the Maxaret system is only mentioned as 'an early system'.

The earliest I can find of any reference to anti-lock brakes is actually in 1857 where they were invented to stop breaking the transatlantic cable while it was being laid.

Bosch have used it since the 1930's, but in no practical and reliable sense was it used until the 1980's. The Honda system precluded the Ford system by about 2 years, and AFAIK that was only beaten by Mercedes system in a truly mass production volume.

The system as used on cars was actually invented many years previously for aircraft.

For sure ABS was fitted to *some* cars much earlier, but it never really worked well, and wasn't used in any great numbers.

By 1986 Honda were fitting it to two model lines, and by 1990 was used almost across the entire range.

Alan Dempster ( snipped-for-privacy@bedrock.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Slight drawback... Not one of my seven cars has the handbrake on the rear wheels.

Andy Hewitt ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

I didn't get past the first line of the Wikipedia entry...

Umm.. right - fair point. I had no idea that any car had the handbrake mechanism applying the brakes to the front wheels.

Out of interest Adrian, what are the seven cars you own?

Al.

IME In snow or icy conditions cadence braking gives far better braking performance than ABS. Even in normal conditions ABS doesn't aid braking, it just allows steering control to be maintained, but it's at the expense of an increase in braking distance. Those who have mastered cadence braking, are better off without it. I've done far more driving in snow and icy conditions in cars without ABS than cars with it. There's no doubt in my mind as to which gives me better control of the car. Mike.

Hmmm... And how many have ABS? That'd be one, would it?

However there's no assurance that the others would be any better, and I've no desire to find out unusual and unpredicatble effects when the one thing I want to be dependable *really* does need to do what it says on the tin, or pedal...

YMMV. I prefer to brake such that I never need it.

I wouldn't specifically look for a car without ABS, but I'd like to be able to switch it off, or have the option of pulling a fuse to disable it. Mike.

Ian Dalziel ( snipped-for-privacy@lineone.net) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Plus my previous main car - which also had a front wheel handbrake.

Chris Street ( snipped-for-privacy@chris-street.demon.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

So try it out first. Get used to the way it works.

So do I.

But you never know when somebody will f*ck up. It might be the other guy. It might be me. But I'd like to have the ABS in reserve.

Alan Dempster ( snipped-for-privacy@bedrock.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Every hydraulic Cit has had a front-wheel handbrake. 2cvs have front wheel handbrakes. "Proper" Saab 900s had front-wheel handbrakes for most of production. There's been others, too.

For six of the seven, there's a clue in the email address... The other one's a big hydraulic Cit. But I've had a 900, too...

Surely that's better? On fresh snow the back wheels are likely to be in the same track that the front wheels have just made, so you would be better locking up the front anyway, plus less chance of an inadvertent handbrake turn?

Well, to compare the difference I temporarily disabled the ABS and drove on the same snow & ice packed minor roads at the same speed and was amazed at the difference. With no ABS I could actually feel the braking resistance with the front end dipping down and hardly any lock-up, or a quick pump on the pedal if it did. With ABS even just slightly touching the pedal I felt hardly any resistance to slowing down before the ABS kicked in. In fact it's a bit deceiving because you think you are not braking at all and so press the pedal harder.

I know there are those who swear by ABS but given the choice I know which I prefer. Most people even with ABS when faced with an emergency stop will simply hit the brakes and freeze without steering, which makes ABS even more dangerous because of the longer stopping distance involved.

That's what you get for buying stupid French s*it and wierd looking swedish lumps.

Did I read recently that you'd swapped the XM for a Mondeo?

cheers, clive

F*CK NO. I'd not own a Shitroen in a million years. The wife on the other hand....

She was told. She refused to listen. It was an expensive experience, one that won't be repeated. If anything good came out of it it was that she now knows the French can't build cars.

Tee hee. What was up with it then?

cheers, clive

The only French car I've owned was a Simca 1301. The position is not going to change.

Steve