Halfords DIY air con recharge kit

Yes I agree here, Halfords are being totally daft with this one. It's not like its an emergency to top up your air/con, especially at this time of year. They are obviously not advising customers that not only should you pull a vacuum on the system, but also replenish the PAG oil as well, and also use the correct type. It is also pretty dangerous stuff too should you get the wrong weight of gas in the system.

I also noticed that they are pushing the Rip Speed products heavily too, the one in Durham has easily 25% of its shop floor dedicated to it. For a nationwide company such as Halfords, I find this rather irresponsible to be encouraging modification, and implying that they think it OK to go faster.

In message , Andy Hewitt writes

A bit like them selling radar detectors as safety devices then :)

Yes but it's a big part of the market, especially considering all the charvers with Novas and Corsas around here.

Is it the one in Pity Me?

Indeed, so we know where their morals lie don't we.

Yup, just recently been refitted.

Just the same. Don't get me wrong, I have no objection to people wanting to upgrade and tune their cars, but they know they are building in unreliability, increased costs and greater possibilities to break the law.

What really worries me is the advise that Halfords are going to give, or that someone is going to get this stuff fitted in their workshops.

Planning to go to Arniston Centre tonight so I'll have a look in to see what you mean ;-)

All credit though, I've been looking for a little hand oil can for some time, couldn't find one anywhere, finally found one in there a couple of days ago.

IIRC, DIY top up kits have been available in the US for ages. So what's different about them?

I guess that air conditioning specialists will be rather worried about this..... you aren't one, are you?

And why do you want to pull a vacuum on a system that only needs a top-up?

In news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com, George Bray decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Oooh, lovely. Loads of "home mechanic" muppets discharging R134a into the air.. Does it mention the £20k fine for doing that?

Why would you need to apply vacuum when all you are doing is topping up the high pressure side of the system though?

The leak sealant I'm less sure on. However the kits I've seen in the US have none, just refridgerant and oil.

Andy Hewitt ( snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

While I'll agree about it not being an emergency, this is the time of year

- or soon will be - when aircon IS a safety aid AND at it's most useful.

It doesn't just make things cold. It makes things dry. Which means glass you can see through.

It's certainly useful, but not essential. Sometimes it can just mean you get away quicker on a cold morning. It's a comfort aid in this country, it isn't a safety feature.

Er yes, I can suck eggs too. Not having air/con doesn't mean the glass won't clear, it just takes longer.

For a start, it's the best way to see if you have a leak. You bung a vacuum into the system, and hold the vacuum for a given time. If the vacuum holds, then the system is sealed.

However, the fact that the system needs topping up might suggest there is a leak, and simply topping up isn't going to help for long. Indeed, you will have just bunged £30 into the atmosphere.

So you pop along to a dealer, or air/con specialist who then charge you between £60 and £90 to test it and top it up again, and find the leak for you.

In any case, with these kits how do you know how much gas you've put in, and how do you know how much it needs?

There is such a variation on quanitities of gas used in the systems, you could easily damage a system.

Actually, no. What you need for demisting is air that has a low relative humidity - actual water content doesn't really matter. The easiest way to get a low RH is to take cold air and then heat it up. In warm weather, you need aircon to give you that cold starting air, but if the outside air is cold to start with, aircon becomes pointless. Once the outside temp gets near zero, the aircon won't run anyway, to avoid icing up the condenser.

Colin.

And if the high pressure side is well above atmopsheric pressure...? Also a vacuum will load a seal with pressure the other way round which can have an effect.

Or it could just be a slow leak. I had my Mondeo topped off after four years and it went another four years before going off, so I'd consider £30 over that time to be well spent.

I beleive you fill a system to the correct pressure, not quantity unless you are filling it from empty.

Unlikely if you don't overpressurise it.

On the two occasions I've had this done on two different cars, it (I assume) leaked out and reverted to as before within a couple of months. So I'm not convinced the standard testing methods are much good.

The message from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

The US has no concern for the environment? (certain amount of tongue in cheek there).

I see a potential short term threat to air conditioning specialists, of whom I am not one, not professionally at least. But I read up about these systems because I don't trust UK specialists: poor diagnosis, rampant over-pricing, telling people they need a new evaporator - most unlikely but a great fee earner.

Back to the recharge kits...DIY top-up with the Halfords kit for £29.95 or take it to an air conditioning specialist for £80 +VAT or thereabouts. But for that, the specialist should do a proper evacuation, do a leak check, weigh the charge, etc, etc. I don't totally reject these top up kits or the top up approach, because I've seen it work a treat at roadside garages in the Middle East, where they connect gauges, confirm the pressure is a bit low, and top it up, all for about ten quid. If you've lost, say, 20% of the charge, wouldn't the outward pressure of the remaining R134a prevent air and much moisture getting into the system? I simply don't know. It suits the trade to say you need total evacuation and recharge (with someone else's dirty R134a in many cases).

The kits have been available for years in the USA.

The biggest problems will arise from the leak sealant element jamming up the system, and people who've lost 80-100% of their charge, thinking that the little bit of R134a in the Halfords kit will solve their problems. Instead, it will likely go straight into the atmosphere. Also, there's no mention on the pack of the need to purge air from the charge hose, use a vacuum pump, pressure gauges or many other wise steps.

Regards George