Induction kits

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From independent tests I've seen over the years, flow tests I've done on my own flow bench and experience with race engines I'd say the following:

1) The std paper filter element itself, if new and clean, is rarely the source of any power loss whatsoever. It's the shape of the housing and trunking that determines the efficiency of the induction system. I've tested induction systems on the flow bench with and without the filter element and the change in flow is negligible. Not enough to cause a measurable change in engine output.

Look back at old carburetor filter housings on things like Cortinas and what you generally have is a nice large round filter and a housing breathing through a tiny snorkel. The aim here is to reduce induction noise which it does very nicely at the cost of approx 5% of the engine's output. K&N started to gain their reputation back in the 70's from bolt on systems that gave you back that

5% but it was the removal of the restrictive housing that gained the power and not the type of filtration media used. You also generally had to suffer extra noise and carb icing in winter to go along with the extra power.

More modern cars, especially FI ones, have better designed systems with larger internal cross sections but still scope for improvement. In flow testing I generally found it was the bottom part of the air box containing a flat panel filter that caused the major part of the restriction. Fiesta XR2i is a case in point. Drill a couple of extra 1" diameter holes in the bottom of the box and the flow goes up considerably. The filter itself causes no restriction.

2) K&N type oiled filters do NOT filter as efficiently as a new paper element and do NOT remove particles down to such a small size. In addition they rely on a careful procedure to clean and re-oil them that is time consuming and prone to error. Too little oil and their filtration efficiency drops, too much and the excess gets sucked into the induction system where it can harm MAF sensors and other items. I've compared the wear on race engines with K&Ns and paper filters and you see more bore wear and valve/seat wear when K&Ns are used. Whether that is partly down to improperly oiled filters is irrelevant - that's part of the equation that the average owner has to face.

The average garage mechanic or DIY servicer can't really screw up a paper element filter change. It's fast and foolproof. Servicing a K&N properly is time consuming and error prone. It isn't a cost effective solution when labour charges have to be included in the equation.

3) Cone type FI filters can certainly improve power by removing large sections of the OE trunking that cause flow restrictions. The filtration media isn't the critical element here - it's the change in the flow path. A big cone paper element would be even better than a big cone K&N type one. What sells modern replacement filter systems is mainly looks. Chrome, stainless steel, carbon fibre look materials. I have no objection to people wanting to alter the appearance of the engine bay or gaining power where such systems genuinely do so. My own approach though is not to pay £200 for a bit of fancy looking 'fluff' that contains about £10 worth of product.

Employ some large diameter proprietary trunking, locate the input end at a high pressure area served by cold air and slap a big truck paper filter element on the end and you'll do a better job for a tenth of the cost.

Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines

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I'm not at all sure why women like men. We're argumentative, childish, unsociable and extremely unappealing naked. I'm quite grateful they do though.

Reply to
Dave Baker
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Err, a racing car will have its engine rebuilt regularly. Do you want this on your road car?

Do a search on Jim Conforti for a start.

But with exactly the same claims from K&N and their supporters...

If the factory paper filter reduced power by increasing the airflow resistance, simply removing it would give an instant increase in power.

Reply to
Dave Plowman

The message from "Nom" contains these words:

Eh? It's more likely that they have a "sports" image which complements the Aston brand and that they're easier to fit wheras a paper filter would need a filter box designing and tuning and so on.

Reply to
Guy King

Sounds like crappy cones - not aftermarket panels!

Reply to
Martin (Please note spammers email address used)

But *exactly* the same arguments are/were used for those...

Reply to
Dave Plowman

Guy King ( snipped-for-privacy@zetnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Which is, of course, such a *huge* percentage of the cost of developing something like the DB9...

Reply to
Adrian

Panel filter about £35? (+oil kit cost?) Paper £3.50?

Would have worked out the same cost and no time taken messing about cleaning and re-oiling it. + changing it every 6K miles when most are now supposed to last 25K would give consistently better filtration and breathing than a K&N panel.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Reply to
Peter Hill

Plus the fact that careless oiling can result in failure of the MAF, it's said.

Reply to
Dave Plowman

Are you saying that modern Astons use K&N? I doubt it given they're owned by Ford.

Reply to
Dave Plowman

Dave Plowman ( snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

*I'm* not, no. I have no idea what they use. I'm merely laughing at the thought that the cost of designing an airbox is a factor.
Reply to
Adrian

indeed it can, mates went at 60k ish, and cost a small fortune...

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Hotwire?

Seems to me that garages generally replace them when they are merely dirty and a squirt of injector cleaner brings them back to normal readings. If it's just been replaced, when not actually broken, that's not quite the right way to do things IME.

I don't really see how oil on a wire can harm it, and would be interested to know - seems to me it would preserve it instead.

Reply to
Sales!

The message from Sales! contains these words:

Oil on a hotwire MAF acts as an insulator, particularly if it is sticky oil - as indeed the stuff in a K&N filter would be. This reduces the rate at which heat flows out from the wire - which is how the airflow is measured. The computer assumes that the air is warmer than it really is and fuels accordingly.

Reply to
Guy King

Glad youre in sales and not anything to do with mechanics..............you dont seem to have a clue!

Reply to
Brain Damage

Eh ?

Both a K&N Element and a Paper Element fit in exactly the same airbox ! They both require exactly the same "designing and tuning and so on" !

If you're talking about Cones again, then stop. They're a completely different kettle of fish.

Reply to
Nom

What relevence does that have ?

Are you implying that the race engine needs rebuilding because of it's filter ? If so, then LOL.

Huh ?

Cones are COMPLETELY different. For a start, you have to replace the stock airbox etc.

I'm simply talking about Paper Element vs K&N Element, in the stock induction system. In my opinion, the K&N gives better filtering, and allows more air to pass. I had one in my previous Pug 405, and I've got one in my TI right now. If I wasn't 100% convinced that it filtered at least as well as a paper filter, then I wouldn't be using them :)

In theorey, that's correct. Any filter will provide *some* air resistance, so no filter at all will let more air in.

Reply to
Nom

Seconded. The manufacturers seem to be able to afford to design an airbox for every other car. In any case, you're still gonna need exactly the same airbox in the car, whether you fill it with a paper filter, a K&N filter, or a piece of cheese.

Reply to
Nom

So assuming it takes about 2 seconds to clean the wire with a quick squirt of WD40 and a clean rag, I fail to see what the issue is ? Why would you replace the wire, simply cos it was dirty ?

Reply to
Nom

LOL !

Ah it's the old "Hmmm, he's right, and I can't think of a meaningful comeback - so I'll just insult his intelligence instead".

Reply to
Nom

Laugh all you like, but do some research first. Then apologise.

I'm glad you're convinced. I'm not. So wouldn't waste my money.

The theory of damping in a resonant circuit is complex.

Reply to
Dave Plowman

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