Land Rover sluggish starting when cold

Three known good starter motors?

Simple one first..oil too thick when cold?

thick oil? manky battery cables? worn starter?

Firstly make sure all the earth wires are OK to the engine.

Can happen if the headgasket is leaking or the valve stem seals are so shot that oil or water is pouring into the bore. Even a worn injector needle seat/spring can allow diesel to continue to flow into the engine overnight until the pressure is completely released from the injection system.

First start of the day after it's been stood overnight has that to contend with. After that, there's very little resistance as insufficient fluid has entered the bores.

I'm not convinced.

Nah, they _were_ pretty 'orrible, but I sorted them out yesterday.

Possibly. I'm puzzled that one that he'd removed looks brand new.

Good question! I'll open up one of 'em and have a look.

Hmm, someone else suggesting this. Is it really likely to have that much effect? It's not something I've come across before.

thick oil was enough to snap cambelts on pinto engines

Top of my list!

Have to say something like this is sounding likely. Though if that was the case I'd expect a lot more smoke on start-up. It does get a bit smokey after churning on the starter for a while as I'd expect from all the unburnt diesel, but I haven't noticed that much when I just bump start it without trying the starter first.

There's also a lot of oil splattered around the engine bay, which is pretty normal for a Land Rover, but could indicate head gasket problems.

Which makes perfect sense.

Trouble is, I'm only using the blasted thing because my Rover needs a few jobs done for its MOT. I really need to be working on the Rover instead of fiddling with this heap!

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

drop the oil out and see if it is like treacle when cold, if it is lovely just pour it back in.

Crumbs. I'll have a look. What I hadn't mentioned, is that my friend had run the thing on veg oil a fair bit. One nasty scenario is that the piston rings are gummed as mentioned in that web page that was recently posted, and that veg oil has found its way into the sump and is merrily turning into lard overnight! Perhaps I'll light a bonfire under it and see what happens...

Yup, I suppose I'd better. Ah well, at least it's easy to reach the sump plug.

If it's still a git the starter from the turbo diesel with the reduction gearbox is far far better than than the standard diesel starter.

That's a handy tip, thanks. Any idea if they're all interchangeable or if I need to look specifically for a non 200tdi/300tdi one?

I changed the oil last night - that wasn't the problem. Also checked the earthing to the engine and that was fine too, it seems my friend had fitted a second lead to make doubly sure.

So I'm back to the starter or some sort of nasty leak into the bores. I think I can discount the latter as I started this morning (after a struggle), ran it for a minute which would have chucked out any fluid build up, but not long enough to warm up, then left it for twenty minutes after which it wouldn't start again until bump started. So it definitely seems to be related to temperature rather than to a slow leak into the bores. Having said that, I noticed that all my nice new wiring is now splattered with oil, which appears to have blown out of the dip-stick tube, so it ain't exactly healthy.

Maybe your previous idea of setting fire to it is looking like the best plan! ;-)

Tempting though that is, it's getting me to and from work so I'll put up with it for a week or two, then stick it on eBay once I get the Rover MOT'd and my Perkins powered Land Rover up and running. At least it's providing me with plenty of incentive to get the others sorted! It's tax exempt with insurance at 35 quid for the year so I'm willing to put up with some inconvenience. And as it only cost me the 215 quid I paid for the van I swapped it for, it'd be hard to find a cheaper stop-gap vehicle!

Have you measured the various voltages when cranking the engine when cold? And checked for voltage drop between the battery and starter when cranking?

If the battery is dropping below 10V when cranking, the battery is either knackered, or not getting charged properly (should be sitting above 12.5V after being stood overnight) And any drop of more than a volt on any wire is cause for concern.

To be honest, I wasn't sure what readings to look for, assuming there'd be some drop, how much is acceptable? Before rewiring it, I'd become convinced that the starter was pulling too much power for the stop solenoid to be left with any, hence no amount of cranking would get it going. This was confirmed when I ran a lead from a separate battery to the stop solenoid and it fired immediately. Then I tidied it all up and found that the bulb running off the glowplug relay was no longer going out when the starter was cranking, so assumed I'd fixed it - until the next morning when it was back to normal again!

Yup, it's reading a fairly consistent 12.7V. I rewired the alternator cabling too and am now confident that it's charging.

Ta, I'll check that. I'm taking tomorrow off so will give it another quick going over. Previous owner had relocated the battery into the back so the cable's very long, but he said the problem was there before he moved it. And the cable is extremely heavy duty. If I was planning to keep the vehicle, I'd put the battery under the passenger seat, but the second fuel tank would have to come out first...

You need 10.5V at the starter for the standard starter, the big advantage of the TD starter is it pulls less current so volt drop becomes less of an issue.

Thanks again Duncan, I had a fiddle about yesterday and now have it sussed. Voltage drop between the battery and starter was a massive 4 volts! Jump leads from a second battery direct to the starter had it cranking at full speed. I'd always connected the jump leads to the battery terminals before which had barely improved cranking speed. So the trouble is being caused by the shear length of the leads carrying battery power the full length of the vehicle (it's a LWB Landie). Pretty obvious really, but I still don't know why it manages to crank OK once it's warmed up.

All I need to do now is remove the second, unused fuel tank and fit the battery under the passenger seat where the lead to the starter will only be about a metre long..

Thanks everyone!

Wouldn't it be easier just to add a second battery cable? the local welding shop should be able to sell you 50mm2 singles.