Learners allowed on motorways from 2018

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40905632

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On 12/08/2017 22:37, Ted wrote:

Motorway tuition should be compulsory. My instructor made me return home by motorway from my sucessful test. Motorway standards have dropped noticeably, partly, I believe, from the introduction of lanes that become slip roads, encouraging the use of lane 2 at least, just to remain on the same road.
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On 8/12/2017 11:00 PM, MrCheerful wrote:

Don't get me started on middle lane hogs. I'm very inclined to favour the US system to allow passing on either side. OTOH you can easily get ticketed for excessive lane changing over there.
We currently have the worst of all possible worlds with middle lane hogs, relatively polite brits queuing up to pass legally leading to very long tailbacks in middle and overtaking lanes, plus the 5% of aggressive weavers and undertakers that piss us all off.
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On 12/08/2017 23:18, newshound wrote:

When I drive a van I confess to either undertaking with a very careful eye including ensuring there is an empty hard shoulder ahead, or simply stay behind them on full beam after a couple of flashes.
Ones that stay in the middle lane after being flashed they typically become unnerved and swerve a little. Shame there isn't a hotline to report middle lane hogs. After say 10-20 complaints they get a free driving retest and ban if they fail.
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writes

More likely, Middle Lane hogs stay in the middle lane after you've flashed them because they have just paid their annual sub to the MLOC, and therefore have every right to be there.

+1. After the initial announcement that the police were going to vigorously prosecute middle lane hogs, I've only ever heard of one report of them doing so. [IIRC, it was quite well publicised.]
--
Ian

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"Fredxxx" wrote in message
On 12/08/2017 23:18, newshound wrote:

When I drive a van I confess to either undertaking with a very careful eye including ensuring there is an empty hard shoulder ahead, or simply stay behind them on full beam after a couple of flashes.
Ones that stay in the middle lane after being flashed they typically become unnerved and swerve a little. Shame there isn't a hotline to report middle lane hogs. After say 10-20 complaints they get a free driving retest and ban if they fail.
= If only ...
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

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On 13/08/2017 14:21, Ophelia wrote:

Hmmm. My advice is never to indicate anything unless it is traccfic related, i.e. an expected action. You never know in what spirit it's being received. As far as I'm concerned, I ceratinly ignore any attemp to interfere if it's not to do with traffic, and there is no rule which says you should flash when you are frustrated, that's not a traffic rule. I don't know the flasher, so why should I care?
That said, we are all responsible for smooth and safe flow of traciic, we should all accomodate a little where necessary.
If someone
is blocking your progress, then
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On 13/08/2017 15:17, johannes wrote:

You flash your headlamps to alert other road users to your presence. This is clearly needed when the driver in front does not keep over to the left when other traffic wants to pass (that's rule number 1).
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On 13/08/2017 16:58, Nick Finnigan wrote:

Where does it say this in the highway code?
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writes

Rule 110.
--
Ian

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On 13/08/2017 17:09, Ian Jackson wrote:

This sounds contrieved to me. Why does he need to know your present when coming from behind. It's your job to keep safe distance to the car in front. Or are you perhaps conveying a different message?
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On 13/08/2017 17:44, johannes wrote:

He needs to know that (potentially) faster traffic is approaching from behind so that he can drive considerately by keeping (or moving) to the nearside and thereby not obstructing that traffic. Lane-hogging is an endorsable offence under Section 3 of the Road Traffic Act 1988: driving without due consideration for other road-users.
And there is also Highway Code Rule 168, which includes the instruction: "Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass."

A driver might unnecessarily obstruct traffic to his rear if he hasn't (yet) realised that traffic is there. That he hasn't realised it is the charitable explanation for what would otherwise be an endorsable offence: lack of due consideration. So the lights are useful.
Note: this sort of behaviour is, in Europe, almost exclusive to the UK (and maybe Ireland). In other countries, drivers move back to the right when they have overtaken, thereby allowing others to overtake them. You can make usually better progress on an Italian or German dual 2-lane motorway than you usually can on a UK highway with four lanes per side because other drivers don't see it as their mission to stop you from getting past.
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JNugent wrote:
[...]

That's common practice in France and The Netherlands also.
Chris
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On 13/08/2017 17:44, johannes wrote:

Its not contrived.
I also admit to being in the middle lane on occasions when I should not, especially when I've just overtaken someone and can't see anyone behind me. If someone does correctly view that I am in the wrong lane (hogging) then I appreciate a flash to make it clear I am in the way and I'll move over.
Only someone with antisocial tendencies would take offence at a gentle reminder.
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On 13/08/2017 18:36, Fredxxx wrote:

I had someone jam on their brakes many years ago, I won. I find that headlamp flashing now adays is usually just ignored, so I don't bother.
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writes

If there's no one behind you - what's the problem? Don't feel too badly about it!
However, it should be fairly automatic that you soon move leftwards - unless by doing so, you're very soon going to have to move out again to overtake. That way, you don't need to have to keep checking in your mirrors quite as often - and this helps to make driving more stress free.

I feel deeply embarrassed when someone has to flash me!

Unfortunately, there's a lot of them about.
--
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On 13/08/2017 19:29, Ian Jackson wrote:

Quite, you simply don't know who's the driver. It could be a gentleman or could could be a nutcase. Hence I never indicate or signals beyound normal traffic rules.
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On 13/08/2017 19:29, Ian Jackson wrote:

This was probably a case where I was in another world and thought I could catch up with another car in lane 1 without affecting anyone else but stayed in the middle lane without further thought.

Likewise.

That does seem the case.
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On 13/08/2017 16:58, Nick Finnigan wrote:

What if there is no room at the left? What if the driver in front just keep up with other drivers in his front, e.g. an overtaking lorry? Then giving you room doesn't help you very much, you will get stuck just the same.
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On 13/08/2017 17:14, johannes wrote:

The law does not list those as exceptions.
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