Poss OT. Carrying large amounts of petrol in a private vehicle.

Sorry if this is OT, I couldn't find a ng more apt.

This for a friend of mine who is into powerboating and P'd off with being overcharged up to 60p/l for petrol at marinas. His intention is to equip a van with a suitable purpose made fuel tank of about 1200L capacity. The van would be fitted with fire extinguishers, warning signs and safety equipment as required by regulation. It would also be well ventilated. The tank would be demountable, baffled (possibly cellular foam filled),bunded, earthed to the vehicle. The plot would be to fill the tank en route to a venue and fill the boat from the van-mounted tank on arrival. Discharge would be by gravity only.

The HSE gives some info but does not seem to be definitive.

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This is the 1st paragraph.

"The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations 2004 (CDG), as amended by The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment (Amendment) Regulations 2005 require that petrol should be carried in UN approved containers (called Packages), which are properly stowed on the vehicle. The packages should be marked with the "flammable" diamond and with the UN number for petrol (UN 1203). Up to

333 litres may be carried as a "small load" which means that only general training needs to be given to the driver and that the vehicle only needs to carry 1 2kg fire extinguisher. These regulations do not affect purely private carriage."

Note the last line, which would apply in this instance.

I think the whole idea is dangerous but I have told my pal that I would make some enquiries.

Any thoughts please, or links to more definitive info. Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger.

Thanks, Nick.

Reply to
Nick
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Totally illegal. Just syphon some from the car tank

Reply to
Eric III

Never mind the last line, what about the one before? 333l Vs 1 2kg extinguisher I know which I'd bet on.

And I doubt whether any garage would let him put 1200l in the back of a van. He needs to address that issue first.

Maybe he could contact the supplier who fills the marina's tanks and get some kind of a deal for quantity, or a fuel card arrangement?

Steve

Reply to
shazzbat

He would be well unpopular at our local filling station using a pump for 25x the usual fill time for an average car and trying to pay 1600ukp at the desk.

I think they would not allow it

Regards

Reply to
TMC

As most garage forecourt petrol pumps cut out at about 100 litres as a safety measure, and there is normally a limit as to how many times the pump can be reset during a single transaction, he'd have a job to buy

1200 litres anyway. I known I have trouble getting more than 200 litres of diesel out of a car pump using a credit card.

What *could* possibly be done, as has been suggested, would be to speak to the local bulk supply company and arrange a quayside delivery, assuming that the 1200 litres is a single fill for the boat. I'll leave the marina's reaction to your imagination.

Reply to
John Williamson

Reading the rest of the regs in the hse article if he does not use the whole

1200 litres as a fill on arrival he would fall foul of the domestic storage regulations covering fuel stored in containers (other than the internal fuel tank) in a vehicle which is 2 x 10 litre suitable metal containers.
Reply to
TMC

The whole project would be just about impossible anyway, as you would have to to make the vehicle compliant with the safety regulations regarding crash resistance, wiring and such. Even a permanently fitted extra tank for a petrol generator is hard to get past the certification process.

Reply to
John Williamson

In message , John Williamson writes

8-) And the neighbouring boat owners!

The surcharge at the quayside will no doubt include safe delivery and storage costs, plus expensive insurance.

The idea of carrying 1200 L of volatile fuel in the back of a van is so ludicrously dangerous as to beggar belief. I wouldn't want to travel in the van, nor would I want it anywhere near me on the road. :-(

Reply to
Gordon H

I once got round that on an XJ6 by using two pumps at once :)

Reply to
The Other Mike

Wish I could get petrol for 60p/l. That's under half price, it's 133.9 to 137.9 p/L round here. I see, it's duty free. How's he going to get it duty free without talking direct to a bulk supplier? Buying from a forecourt will cost more than double and then he has to try to claim the tax back, could result in some sort of investigation. I don't think "domestic and leisure" users can claim road fuel duty back anymore.

A stock 60-100L vehicle fuel tank is about the limit + a few 10L jerry cans. If the vehicle is diesel then a van tank around 100L could possibly be secured in an external load area. Never inside the vehicle.

Get a LPG conversion so he doesn't use the petrol to get there.

Easiest way to get fuel out is, use the pump that is in the tank. Remove fuel pump fuse while engine is running to remove pressure from fuel line. Disconnect the fuel line from fuel filter to fuel rail, at the fuel filter. Put a long length of fuel hose on the filter outlet. Remove pump relay, connect a switch into the relay base terminals using spade connectors.

Put fuel hose in a 10L can. Flick the switch. Fill the can, will take about 3min with a "high flow" 200 L/h car type fuel pump. Take fuel to boat. Repeat 6-10 times. Go get more fuel, repeat 12-20 times.

By the time he's done 120 trips to the boat with that 10L can and

12-20 runs to the petrol station he will be ecstatic to pay the marina markup.

Exactly what sort of powerboat needs that much fuel? Is he going round Britain? A 4 wheel trailer would be a far better bet.

If he can afford to burn £720 having fun he can afford the markup. For most people that's a 2 week holiday abroad, or maybe a 1 week cruise.

Reply to
Peter Hill

In a Jag you *need* two pumps!

Reply to
Gordon H

...and two wallets.

After a few gallons had gone in we had the filling station attendant come running out like headless chicken saying "you can't do that"

errm...we already have

Those were the days (Early to Mid 80's) 1.50 ish a gallon, relatively empty roads and no speed cameras.

Reply to
The Other Mike
[...]

In a similar vein, I ran a rally-prepped 1293 Mini Cooper S. The standard tank was a pathetic 5.5 gallons, which would only get me 100 miles on a bad day.

I added the works-style second tank to bring it up to 11 gallons; it prompted many amusing responses from filling station staff, including being accused of filling an illegal number of cans.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Re-read the original mail. He's OVERCHARGED by 60p/l.... so 60p EXTRA per litre... nearly £2 / litre.

Reply to
AlanD

Many years ago I bought one for peanuts from a dealer that was dumping their surplus stock - I'm convinced they thought it was a tank for a LHD vehicle or something oddball as (by design) it had no cutout for the level gauge

I then saw how much space I would lose in the boot. So it sat in my garage for a few years until I had a clearout and sold it for about ten times what I paid for it. I had thought the second tanks were slightly larger capacity than the usual tank, 6.5 or 7 gallons BICBW.

Reply to
The Other Mike

Mini? Boot space?

Reply to
David Taylor
[...]

Genuine BL Special Tuning ones were 5.5 gallons. They were an exact mirror image of the original.

In the boot of mine I also had a Triumph 2000 battery, and a twin SU fuel pump.

It wouldn't have been terribly practical as an every day driver...

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

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