Stop Petrol in Diesel tank

Hi When I was about two years old back in 1937 one of my toys was a wooden frame with cutouts a star a square a circle an oval and a cross. You could not place the wrong design in any of the other shapes Could fuel suppliers/vehicle manufacturers not produce the same for fuel supply STAR diesel OVAL u/l SQUARE lead repleacement petrol

Yes I have a brain like others, just although I have managed to realise in time, after driving a company petrol car for nine-months to have a diesel courtesy car one day after three hundred miles and a busy day, go to fill up and oops wrong pump Not a case of help for the brain dead but to prevent accidental use? under any circumstance

Reply to
Domestos
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Then what about existing cars? They wont be able to fuel any longer!

Why not start with something simple and do-able, such as universal colour coding on filler handles to match the colour of the filler hole on the car; the part that is normally covered by the fuel flap so not to upset the colour scheme. That can be introduced without making the existing fleet of cars obsolete.

Reply to
Johannes

They could make them to fit the current vehicles, The colour coding has gone all to hell but would be an easier option though not fool (idiot) proof My garage has blue or black for diesel

Reply to
Domestos

Most accident of this kind is due to absentmindedness. Error can still occur with colour coding. Now, if every car is 'chipped' (e.g. the car's VIN) like ID chips in house pets then a further extension of linking the type of fuel used to the supply pump is not complicated (scanning the chip once the car is taking up position for the pump nozzle can also have other benefits, stopping e.g. fraud, non-payment, etc.). Then a mismatch would stop the tap from being turned on.

Reply to
Lin Chung

Whether or not the fuel being put into the tank is the correct type or not, is irrelevant to the government / fuel company. They still get their money at the end of the day, and the government makes more on the VAT from the cost of the repair bill :-)

Reply to
Sandy Nuts

Exactly. Who cares which fuel is used apart from the individual motorist?

Should there be clever gubbins in oil containers in case the wrong one is out in an engine?

"Oi! Motorists! Wake up!!" :o)

Si

Reply to
Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot

Wasn't that sort of implemented with UL in that they have a smaller nozzle and neck than 4 star so that when they were introduced it was harder to accidentally put leaded fuel into your cat equipped vehicle. Now that 4 star has gone the way of the dinosaurs (as you may say) it's not something you see anymore.

Reply to
Depresion

I really don't think that the retailer and vehicle manufacturers sees it this way. The poor old guy who is stranded is still a customer. the reason why some of the 'better' retailers use colour coding on the controllers and why some car manufacturers use colour coding on the fuel tank neck in addition to labelling in the proximity of the filler.

John

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Reply to
GMails

Or "put", even.

Si

Reply to
Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot

Sounds like a good idea, but it doesn't work for some complicated and not particularly intuitive reasons.

The flow of petrol through the nozzle creates friction between the surface of the hose and the fuel running through it. "Of course it does", you say. What you might not be aware of is that this creates a static charge; electrons from the fuel build up on the nozzle end in the same way that electrons from your hair build up on the surface of a balloon when you rub it on your head.

This charge is kept to a minimum because it's being delivered through a round nozzle, which obviously has the smallest possible surface area. The charge is also dissapated when the nozzle is returned to the cradle. With a star-shaped nozzle, the static charge builds up much faster; not only because there's a greater surface area for the charge to build up on, but because the irregular shape causes turbulence in the flow; more petrol comes into contact with the sides. Also, having points, a single "discharge point" is formed which makes sparks much more likely. Static sparks arcing across the gap between the fuel nozzle and the petrol tank are not a good plan.

Of course, a way around that would be to have a star-shaped outside but a round-shaped middle bit - but then we add, not inconsiderably, to the size of the hole needed in the side of the car, not to mention the greater cost of machining the parts.

If you're fuelling with just deisel, the sparks shouldn't matter a jot, but deisel often comes out of the pump in much greater quantities (lorries, vans etc) than petrol, meaning a higher static charge and a bigger spark - and that could be risky if used too close to petrol pumps. Petrol tankers, which fill the station's storage tanks through much, much higher flow pipes get around the static problem by having wires running along the length of the pipe and then off to ground harmlessly.

John

Reply to
John Duffey

While you are indeed correct, colour coding the pumps isn't a hard thing to do, nor costly. Installing such devices as mentioned previously such as car fuel type detection systems would be something filling stations won't be willing to pay for.

Reply to
Sandy Nuts

I can't possibly put the wrong fuel in my lpg tank ;-))

Reply to
Chris Bolus

no, but it stops u putting derv in a ul car.

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Reply to
Neil

The message from Chris Bolus contains these words:

I bet with a bit of ingenuity you could!

Reply to
Guy King

Run an earthing wire down the pipe too. Have a semiconductive pipe like the semiconducting layer in some coax cables.

Reply to
Malc

The message from "Malc" contains these words:

The pump's pipes already are, I believe.

Reply to
Guy King

With origins in Japan is a technique called "Poke Yoke" - Mistake proofing. Widely used in the motor industry to prevent things being made incorrectly - Eg. Headlight bulb lugs are spaced to prevent them being fitted incorrectly.

John

Reply to
john

The message from "john" contains these words:

Nothing a bit of low cunning couldn't circumvent if you /wanted/ to.

Reply to
Guy King

these words:

pipe like the

This was my understanding as well. The biggest risk come from someone leaving the nozzle in the filler neck (especially where it is filling, displacing vapour) and then returning having aquired a static charge elesewhere. On re-touching the nozzle a discharge to the earthed nozzle can occur, igniting the surrounding fuel air atmosphere. I believe this is the main reason that the pins from the pump nozzles that allow you to fill up without having to keep hold of the lever are normally removed.

Jim

Reply to
Jim Ingram

That at least causes no permanent damage (but lots and lots of smoke!).

Reply to
Zog The Undeniable

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