Tools

Trouble with Draper is they source from all over and simply stick their name on it, so quality varies enormously. In general, I'd not recommend them unless they are the only supplier of a more specialised tool.

Kamasa I like, if I was to name only one value brand.

Machine Mart is almost always poor value.

Worth trying your local motor factors or engineering suppliers too.

For anyone in SW London, Cannon's Of Clapham Common has a tool department well worth a visit. But make sure you get trade price.

Aha! So there is a market! (c:

I think the Teng equivelant is about £6000 or £7000. Hmmm...

Douglas

Draper have several ranges, their cheaper stuff is best avoided, their mid range is passable but their top end (profesional ?) ranges are as good as anything else at the same price. I suppose it depends on how big a discount you get on Draper, if you pay full RRP they aren't good value at all, but the same goes for any supplier. I never pay anything close to RRP for my tools but I've found local suppliers who are willing to discount without too much arm twisting.

My Dad is a Kamasa fan, he hasn't managed to break all of his Kamasa 1/2" set yet. Some of their cheaper stuff isn't as good as their more expensive stuff, they are similar to Draper in that respect. If you get the Swedish Kamasa stuff, it is almost certainly better than the British Kamasa, there is something a bit odd about the way the brand is marketed in different territories. I think it may be a global brand with different franchises supplying different tools under the same name in different countries.

In my experience it depends on what you buy, some stuff is better value than others.

I'd agree with that, although I do get my tools from dedicated a tool supplier.

I have seen budget brands e.g. Draper & Kamasa at comedy prices i.e. double the price I can get them elsewhere, this often makes budget brands not very budget...

-- James

ahhh, the old school of thought that goes along the lines of "if it doesn't come undone, you need a bigger hammer" :)

or the offshoot of that school of thought that says "if it doesn't come undone, you ain't hitting it hard enough" :)

In message , dojj writes

I prefer the term "percussive maintenance".

The ones with both are probably better IMO, as you have a choice of both depending on what you use it for. I've only ever used a torque wrench when i've been putting a new clutch on - all the other times when i should have used it i've guesstimated and never had a problem. It all depends on what you're going to be doing and how much of a perfectionist you are!

I've brought a few cheap tools in my time - and have normally regretted it. Middle of the range stuff is what i use now. I've got quite a few Draper bits (sockets, ratchets, screwdriver set) and they seem to last very well. Also some of the Halfords stuff i have brought has lasted well. Also got a few things stolen from me dad - snap on, and some other make that eludes me, and they're probably decades old by now - quality lasts!!!

Depends what you want to do. If i were you, for now, i'd stick with a decent socket set 8mm - 19mm (3/8" would do), 10mm-19mm spanners, adjustable wrench, decent screwdriver set (inlcuding a big one that can be used to lever things), a hammer, pliers, sidecutters and a big adjustable plier thingy. Then if you need anything else you can get it as you go and gradually build your tool collection up. Oh, and some gaffer tape and cable ties!

I always keep a decent amount of tools in my car, plus spare pipes (water and fuel), tow rope, WD40, jump leads, spare coolant - all in a plastic box strapped down in the boot. Everytime i've broken down i've always been able to fix it at the side of the road (or patch it up enough to carry on). originally i only did it for rallies - now i just keep it in there all the time.

No idea on that one.

Autolycus> And if it was Rangeys they'd been working on for 20 Autolycus> years, their instinct wasn't too far out, especially Autolycus> given that they were using an inappropriate tool. What Autolycus> torque would they have achieved with their own choice Autolycus> of wrench, not an odd bendy one?

I'm not necessarily claiming it was a scientific test. It would have been interesting to be able to measure the torque applied through a normal wrench without affecting the feel.

Autolycus> I don't know which model of Rangey they were working Autolycus> on, but my manual (AKM3630 Ed 7) quotes 12.5 to 13.35 Autolycus> kgf-m for alloy wheels, which works out at about 120 to Autolycus> 130Nm. Medal for one man, at least. YTMV.

80Nm is the recommendation for the P38A with Alloy Wheels. Quoting a range is out of fashion these days, it seems.

--

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Andy Cunningham aka AndyC the WB | andy -at- cunningham.me.uk | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | - Everything you wanted to know || about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+"And everything we want to get/We download from the InternetAll we hear is/Internet Ga-Ga/Cyberspace Goo-goo" -- from "Radio Ga Ga"/"We will rock you"

Dave> I was mainly referring to using open end or ring spanners Dave> where the length is in proportion to the size, so a decent Dave> pull will give near enough the correct torque on a non Dave> critical fixing. Of course this doesn't work with a socket Dave> set where the handle is the same for all. Hence my Dave> recommendation for a 1/4 and 3/8 drive set for smaller sizes Dave> as the handles on these are shorter.

I also find the weight of the larger wrenches is unncessary hard work as well. I have a superb quanity set of 1/2" drive sockets made by Teng.. Most of the time I use the sockets with a much lighter ratchet because spinning the ratchet is actually quite tiring, apart from the final tightening and loosening.

Dave> As regards wheel fixings, the use of torque wrenches is Dave> pretty recent. We Dave> seemed to manage ok without for years. It was far more Dave> common for a thread to be stripped or stretched through Dave> gross overtightening at a tyre shop than for a wheel to come Dave> loose. A goodly heave on the supplied wheelbrace should give Dave> again the correct torque as near as matters.

Actually, I stopped torqueing the wheel nuts when I realised they'd been airgunned once too often and now need to be much tighter than the torque spec to hold. Three nuts were visibly loose one morning, which was quite a shock, though I did have a vibration problem at the time which contributed to this.

--

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Andy Cunningham aka AndyC the WB | andy -at- cunningham.me.uk | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | - Everything you wanted to know || about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+"And everything we want to get/We download from the InternetAll we hear is/Internet Ga-Ga/Cyberspace Goo-goo" -- from "Radio Ga Ga"/"We will rock you"

Dave> In article , Dave> James wrote: >> Facom don't make the Halfords stuff. I've seen it written in >> many places (i.e. everywhere) but they don't.

Dave> It's only their pro range, though, their ordinary stuff Dave> ain't that good IMHO.

I used some Facom ratchet wrenches last week and was very unimpressed with the quality - I kept accidentally reversing the ratchet. The Halfords Pro stuff does look good, though I got a great deal on the Teng set I use otherwise I'd have probably bought the Halfords set by now.

AndyC

--

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Andy Cunningham aka AndyC the WB | andy -at- cunningham.me.uk | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | - Everything you wanted to know || about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+"And everything we want to get/We download from the InternetAll we hear is/Internet Ga-Ga/Cyberspace Goo-goo" -- from "Radio Ga Ga"/"We will rock you"

stick their

not recommend

tool.

avoided, their mid

as good as

big a discount

at all, but

RRP for my

discount without too

Kamasa 1/2"

more expensive

the Swedish

Kamasa, there

different

franchises

countries.

I think Kamasa basically makes 2 grades of tools. One grade is cheap drop forged stuff and not worth buying. The other range, marked 'chrome vanadium' is good value.

Apart from Kamasa and Elora, most of my spanners, sockets etc, come from a variety of unknown makers, and have been baught cheaply over a number of years. Most of my Elora stuff was baught when they were first imported to this country, and were heavily discounted to attract sales. None of them have ever let me down, and the only thing they have in common is that they are all made from Chrome Vanadium. (CV) I just won't buy spanners etc made from anything else. Maybe there are poor quality CV tools around. If there are, I seem to have missed buying them. Plus no name CV tools can be remarkably cheap. I'd suggest that buying chrome vanadium tools marked as such, is a good guide of their quality, especially in the absence of a name you recognise. Mike.

Fair , I snapped a draper ring spanner once & punched the block, it was several years before I bought anything off them again, still their ABS brake tool & universal valve compressor(saves you taking the head off ) are holding up & look very similar to Mr Snapons

If you only use it infrequently the heavy stuff like the hydraulics isn't bad, the hand tools are generally crap & the power tools are available cheaper elsewhere (

are normally competetive)

Ah crap, "(side faced sockets)" should read "six faced" ;(

Hex rather than bi-hex?

Yeah, impact sockets seem to be mainly hex, I've used 'em at a push but they're a bit bulky.

You can get 'normal' sockets that are hex rather than bi-hex. They are said to grip better, but I've never found it a problem on nuts which are in good condition using a good quality bi-hex of the correct size. Rusty nuts might be different.

Bi-hex sockets have the considerable advantage of thinner walls.

Most of my hex sockets are 'normal' sockets, if I need one I don't have I look in my rattle-gun case and use an impact one. I was thinking of rusty heads, I've stripped a few old cars with 'em (cortina and esc Mk2) and they've been invaluable, maybe because I use metric tools on 'em ;)

But for rusty imperial bolts with a fair bit of room around 'em i still prefer a couple of decent hex sockets :)

In article , Paul Giverin writes

Birmingham screwdriver.

"More complicated problem, use a bigger hammer"

"Impact technology".

If it jams, hit it. If it breaks, it probably needed replacing anyway.

BTW, I got my Elora socket set in 1965 with my mother's Embassy coupons. It's still going strong, although the plastic tray insert is severely mangled because of all the metric sockets that also live there.

I think wheel nuts are one of those things you just do up damn tight. I dont bother with a torque wrench on them, just make sure they damn well wont come off by accident!!!

Ed

which meanas they crack easier ;)