Next Gen not Ibuki

That's too bad. The fist time I saw an RX-8, I thought it was ugly. Saw one yesterday. They still are.

And the top doesn't go down.

I suppose that means all sorts of ugly bits of crappy plastic hung all over the thing, fender flares that look they were pasted on by a high-school auto-body class, and all sorts of random creases and slots in the sheet metal. :(

That's a matter of opinion. I think most M2s are too "aggressive" looking.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:09:22 GMT, Tom Howlin wrote in news:407b3dc4$0$27659$ snipped-for-privacy@news.rcn.com:

This is just traditional Japanese marketing.

My first Honda Civic weighed about 1800 lbs. My first Honda Accord weighed about 2200 lbs.

Now the Civic is 2800 lbs and larger than the Accord was, and the Accord is a big bloated bus. I owned five Hondas and then jumped ship.

The 'new' Miata will be named the same, but I suspect geared towards previous Miata owners who have 'matured' into something a bit less raw.

The Ibuki seems to be the natural heir to the Miata territory of back to basic driving. It will be a completely different car. Assuming it does make it to production.

The current Civic is 2,449lbs - heavier than previous cars, but still rather light for it's class.

The problem has nothing to do with Japanese marketing and everything to do with safety requirement and the general public's call for luxury.

Time will tell. I am still driving my 1993 Miata and I would defintely have looked at an Ibuki. Something that is a bigger/faster M2 would not appeal to me.

Ron.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:13:57 GMT, "Ron Loewy" wrote in news:pdVec.25477$ snipped-for-privacy@nwrddc01.gnilink.net:

Sorry, my memory was of the last review I read, which was the hybrid. The 'regular' Civic is 187 lbs less. Still +40% heavier. Oink oink.

One thing which separates the U.S. market from the Canadian one is that cars are much smaller here. I don't consider the Civic to be a small car. Honda no longer sells small cars here. Toyota sells the Echo hatchback here which is smaller then the Echo sedan. They won't sell it south of the border because it is too small for that market, and for some reason U.S. buyers don't like practical hatchback designs. We also get the Smart very soon.

The public's call for pork in the form of power ashtrays is marketing by Honda to fill that 'need'. The Japanese model is to keep increasing car size rather than new models: Civic, Accord, Camry. . .

As for safety, I don't buy it. Weight begats weight. More motors to lift rotate and spindle every gadget in the car leads to heavier this and that to support it. I am very sure that designing a car to be safe when subjected to destructive force is no longer the "add a big fat beam here and there" like it was before computers. If anything, the proverbial 'they' could design cars which are much lighter and safer. It is the oink factor which has increased weight. If it wasn't the Ibuki wouldn't exist.

mucho macho masculine:

far, far less masculine:

I wanna be masculine like that! Hello, Pizza Hut? Yes, send over three large pepperoni pizzas. No. make it four. I'm gonna be become a sumo wrestler and get all the ladies!

o boy, not just bloated but fugly too!

which obviously needed improving real bad. While we're at it. let's hunt down Laetitia Casta and give her radical plastic surgery to make her look prettier.

damn damn DAMN! I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well, at least I sure won't be all "Boo hoo hoo, I want one but I can't afford it" when the new model comes out.

Whereas in my "humble" opinion I can live just fine with 148 HP or even

116 HP as long as the car weighs 2200 lbs.

I wonder if Chyrsler's going to make a production version of that 1800 lb. Slingshot concept car of theirs. Probably not. 400 or 500 or 800 totally useless horsepower and a $65,000-and-up price tag! You betcha, coming right up! Something I'd actually enjoy driving in the real world? Forget it.

Ain't this a load? Toshihiko Hirai must have retired, I guess.

Yours WDK - snipped-for-privacy@ij.net

One thing you're forgetting is that previous Civics aren't optioned like new ones. Our '03 sedan has a power sunroof, airbags all around, ABS, etc. and like Ron says, is still lighter than the rest of the class. It's less than

400 lbs. heavier than our '95 Miata, but my wife and kid ride in it. I don't think 400 lbs. is too much to add to a Miata to add a rear seat.

Insight? Does that count?

Personally, I don't think it's the hatchback; I think it's the cheesy design and the center speedometer that ruin it. Automakers seriously need to realize *now* that nobody wants the speedometer located in the center of the dash. They think it speaks "chic" and it speaks "cheap". Saturn Ion, Toyota Echo, etc.

That contradicts Honda's decision to offer the Acura EL in Canada but not in the US. The EL is nothing more than a Civic with leather seats.

I doubt you are right. Todays cars are heavier because they are a lot stiffer (to allow for better response and active safety) yet include much better crush zones. Add ABS, traction control and all the other safety gizmos, all the airbags (once again in the name of safety) and the luxury items people expect and you get larger and heavier cars. In theory, given the same technology overall - lighter cars will perform better and have better active safety - but I doubt that my 7 - which carries about 1250lbs on it is anywhere as safe as my 2200lbs Miata, and I am sure that my Miata is nowhere near as safe as my wife's 3000lbs Impreza.

I also do not think this has anything to do with Japanese marketing strategy, the same is true for almost any car on the planet. The E30 BMW were 2800lbs cars, the E36 were 3200lbs and today's E46 are 3400lbs (all numbers based on the M3, basically the top of the line in each case, to get a "comparable" vehicle). The same can be seen across the board - the European Lotus Elise was a 1500lbs car when it came out in the early/mid

90's - the version we will get here with all the exotic weight reduction technology will be a 1900lbs - that's only 300lbs less than the original Miata which did not have anything exotic in it - unless you are lucky enough to own a '93 LE with it's "exotic" interior color scheme. If there were any Korean or American cars I cared about - I am sure I could trace the same weight gain - but most American and Korean cars of the early 90's were not interesting (to me) - so I can't comment.

The only exceptions to the rule I can think of are the new XJ Jaguar which went to exotic Aluminum construction to shed some weight - something that is not very reasonable to expect from mass market cars and the upcoming Subaru Legacy (2005) that lost 150+ lbs from the reports I heard.

I will be the last to argue that weight is an enemy of many things - but with the reality of mass production, cost cutting and safety regulations - weight gain is the norm in the industry, not some Japanese marketing technique.

Ron.