Went from Phoenix to San Marcos, California last weekend for my sister's birthday, drove over Thursday and came home Sunday.
Weird Weather: Two years ago I did the same trip, had the top down, wore fairly heavy jacket and was a bit chilly at times. Passing through Indio it was warm but I didn't need to remove the jacket. This year, I stopped at the first rest stop west of Phoenix and put the top up and the AC on, it was almost 100F.
Gas Mileage: From San Marcos to Blythe, top up, AC on, steady 80mph except through the mountains on 371 and 74, AC off and closer to 60mph produced
31.5mpg and that's the best the Miata has ever done! Maybe it's true that the AC costs less mileage than having the top or windows down?
Gas Prices: Didn't see any gasoline west of the Colorado River less than $3.059 and some was as high as $3.799! I'm afraid that's an indicator of what the rest of the country may see in the very near future, let's hope not.
Speed: It's weird to be cruising at 80mph and be one of the slowest cars on the road. I figure 10mph over is as fast as I can feel safe from the CHP, they were out there and giving citations but most cars didn't even slow down when they went by! Are they really that crazy or am I over cautious?
Just wait. Gas here in Europe is something around $6.70 and if it wasn't for the weak dollar it would be a lot worse. On the up side it means less gas guzzlers and less smog.
If you ever get a chance then make a road trip in Germany they have amazing free ways and on some parts there are no speed limits.
Don't rub it in Bruno ;-) We can afford the petrol but can't (legally) drive fast, you guys can go fast but if you do, you'll go broke fast!
Crazy world eh?
Actually, with so much of the world paying a Bush's ransom for gas I find it hard to believe the manufacturers continued heavy slant toward performance. Don't get me wrong, I love performance but when even hybrids are doing 0 to
60 times 7.5 seconds (maybe some even less), it seems a bit odd! I know us crazy Americans may be a bit slow coming around to the world reality but isn't the rest of the world looking for serious mileage #'s. Maybe those models just aren't being shipped across the sea? I'm not talking about micro cars really, more like full size cars and SUV's. The Honda Accord and the Lexus 300 SUV hybrid, both are like performance versions. Why don't they make a great mileage version and a high performance version? Sorry, rambling.
Because with the large hybrid cost premium, no one would buy them if they weren't fast. Nobody buys cars that size expecting economy, anyway--if they get 20 or 25 mpg, they're deliriously happy...assuming they even notice.
Where exactly is the point in going fast in a Miata? Mine's happiest on twisty country roads, doing 50 or 60 mph. Was on the german autobahn a week ago and let it run a bit. Yes, it could go 110 mph and felt safe and stable. Fun, it was not.
Europe has decided some weeks ago that by 2012 new cars will have to emit a maximum of 130 g of CO2 per kilometer in average. That's around 5 l/100 km petrol, a bit more for diesel (no idea on what it means in mpg). I am looking forward to see how that turns out. But you'll find that when you take an Audi A4 or similar equipped with the base Diesel engine, you can do that already today, and have a car perfectly capable of 100mph+.
Obviously for every SUV sold you'll need to sell 5 Priuses to keep the average in check :-)
"Chris D'Agnolo" wrote in news:b160d$46009ee8$471ea788$ snipped-for-privacy@ALLTEL.NET:
In addition to the up-front premium that Lanny mentioned, the mileage improvement isn't THAT significant. Take the Ford Escape for example (I used the MSRPs from Fords website and chose the XLT since it seems to be the closest in package options to the Hybrid - Escape MSRPs range from $19,985 to $25,900 for the 5 models).
2007 Ford Escape XLT 2.3L ($22,945): 23 city / 26 hwy 2007 Ford Escape Hybrid 2.3L FWD ($26,320): 36 city / 31 hwy
$3300 diff up front. If you drive mostly city, the mileage improvement from 23 to 36 is pretty significant but you only save about 235g/year driving 15k miles. At that rate, it would take about 4 1/2 years to recover the $3300 premium even at $3.00/gal, and I don't think most people who buy new cars keep them much more than 5 years. When you hit the highway, you only pick up 5mpg. So if you did 50/50 city/hwy, it'd take more than 6 1/2 years to recover your invenstment.
A quick glance shows the Honda Accord Hybrid have a MSRP of $31,090 vs $23,350 for the regular Accord. The mileage for the two: Hybrid: 28/35, standard: 20/29.
The tradeoff just isn't what it needs to be yet. The US govn't (I guess we should give credit to Bush for implementing this since you blame him for the high gas prices) is offering tax breaks for people who purchase hybrids which closes the gap some, but in most cases, the only reason to buy a hybrid right now is so you can feel a little better about your impact on the environment.
Lanny Chambers wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.kc.sbcglobal.net:
Apparently it's still active. It's based on how many eligible units have been sold (per manufacturer). Once they pass 60,000 units, the "phase out" begins.
Toyota/Lexus has sold enough to be in the "phase out" period - so the credits have been reduced and scheduled for expiration. The rest appear to still qualify for full credit.
Info from:
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Ford touts the $2,600 credit on their FWD Escape Hybrid here:
That seems to be a funny logic: one would think the subsidy were to push consumers to a green choice. If that were the case, why stop subsidizing Toyotas and continue subsidizing (apparently less selling) Fords?
I believe that the logic is that the initial the lack of economies of scale will make the new technology too expensive to be adopted by consumers. It's supposed to be a way out of a catch-22 situation: They're expensive because nobody buys them, but nobody buys them because they're expensive.
Once volumes are higher, the costs should come down enough that the subsidies will no longer be required. [Subsidizing high volumes at the same rate also requires a lot bigger budget.]
If you are used to driving at 80 mph or below, running autobahn speeds above
100 will make you very nervious. It's best to start out a little below 100, say 90-95 to get used to the speed, then increase it to what you and the car seem to like. I used to driver the autobahn in the late seventies. We always rented Mercedes if we had a choice. My personal car was a 76 Buick Regal 2dht-- Red with Hurst hatches that i had brought from the states. It was comfortable to drive for extended periods up to 100. Past that, tires and handling became a concern. (OEM TPC spec tires) It really was a pain to drive on the twisty back highways.
The germans always stopped and looked at the car when it was parked in large retail store parking lots. The front bumper was massive, with shocks and a U shaped beam that reinforced the front bumper. Plastic trim normally covered a gap between the bumper and grille. This was removed to mount fog and driving lights, making the size and mass of the bumper more obvious.
Chuck, I do not feel uncomfortable with high speed driving. I have done around 100000 km autobahn, most of them in cars capable of 110 mph or more. I remember a late evening trip back home from Frankfurt (around
300 km) with an average speed of 120 mph.
It's just that I think the Miata is no fun at these speeds. It is very noisy and a bit jiggly, you can't really drop the top, and there's an annoying absence of thrill inducing bends, corners or curves. So, what's the point, then?
It probably made them wonder if one culd produce an entire Volkswagen out of the metal of your bumper :-)
It's not just the petrol if only that's here in Denmark, a small country just north of Germany for those without a map of Europe, because cars here are taxed rather high.
There are exceptions but most normal cars has a 180% tax put on top of the price (with some safety features like ABS left untaxed) and after that comes a general 25% sales tax which is on most things - oh and as a nice touch the sales tax is also put on the 180%. As a result the cheapest car here in Denmark is about $18.000 and a new Miata 2.0 with full specs and the soft top is yours for around $78,300 :-)
Certainly :-)
I think part of the reason is actually motoring journalists.
When I was a kid some 25 years ago I remember reading about cars and anything even close to 10 seconds for 0-60 was considered fast and anything under 16-18 seconds was the norm. And top speed wise the situation was similar.
But if you read a motoring magazine today they'll describe anything with less than 100+ BHP per ton as under powered and I think for many they are like trend setting in a bad way. Motoring fun is not, just, about power but it's like many people need to "My car is fast" and only a few people say "My car is clever and fun".
In a way it's going backwards here in Europe. We have had small eco friendly cars for years but mileage has not improved much over the last twenty years. Partly because safety equipment has made cars heavier but mainly because cars has gotten bigger and more powerfull with every generation. It's not all bad though fx. 911's has gotten a lot better mileage wise :-)
Maybe those
I do think you see most of of the world's SUV's in the US as it is the main market for cars like that. And as for mid size I do think a lot of what we consider mid size is considered micro state side which is a big shame and even our real micro cars are actually really good. In fact many of our small cars many seem small but because of the way they are build they are not small on the inside.
Here are a few cars I think really would be worthwhile to get in the US:
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The Honda Accord and the
Me too :-)
Interestingly just as not many EU cars make it to the US we don't see many US cars. Part of the reason may be because the market is different but there are also some things which are said of US cars over here (true or not I can't as I have limited experience with US cars - please don't take offence).
- They are only good in straight lines.
- The suspension is to soft - like a sofa.
- The build quality is not so good.
- The interior is mostly cheap plastic.
- They are more brute force than refinement.
- They drink gas like there is no tomorrow.
- old school design
I'm sure a similar list can be made about European cars, perhaps something like too small, to stiff, under powered, flashy interior...
Only US cars I see here in Denmark in any number is PT Cruisers, Jeep's, Chrysler (300M, Voyager, Neon) and then a few special imports like Hummer's, Viper's, F150's, Ford GT - the imports are all as rare as Ferrari's if not more.
The last two are not true across the board. The others are, sadly, still generally accurate.
OTOH, European cars have earned a reputation here for being unreliable, expensive to maintain and repair, and poor value. Even the formerly-bulletproof Mercedes now has a poor reputation for durability. Americans can't see the benefit of a quality interior if it spends much of its time in the shop. They'd rather drive crude trucks that start every time and don't leave them stranded 20 miles from the nearest town (a situation tough to imagine in Europe).
Driving conditions determine market expectations, of course, and a lot is explained by the differences in distances and climates. Americans expect to be able to jump into their automotive appliances in New York and drive to California in a couple of days with no attention to the car but fuel. Europeans are typically awed by the unpopulated vastness of much of North America. And many Americans think Europe is like being in rush hour 24/7.
I presume what Leon means is the electricity is "free" because it's the product of regenerative braking, not the burning of fuel. Instead of just making heat, braking charges the batteries. Of course, using the electrons for whoopie launches means the gas engine will kick in sooner when the batteries run down. TANSTAAFL.
I don't see what is odd. If you don't put in an electric motor, you have no hybrid. If you do, reasonably speaking you have a high performance vehicle.
The thing is that electric motors offer lot of torque from like zero revolutions and they have a wide range rpm wise as well, both things that does help with 0-60 figures. Also if we are talking a hybrid then in has two engines both able to drive the car so if you allow for both engines to run at once then it will offer good performance.
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