Opinion sought

Looking at reliability, simplicity, ease and cost of repair plus longevity as well as durability: Yes, I do.

But of course I'm not mainstream with my thoughts and wants plus there's another thing, that's the sound of the engines.

When I drove a w124 300D (sedan, auto, 109 PS) for a year, which now is more than 10 years ago, I not only liked the power - yes, POWER, compared to the 55-80 PS 4- and 5-cyl W123 diesels - but especially the sound of the engine. I know that's _highly_ subjective and in realistic terms the car was not _fast_ (185 km/h//115 mph, 0-100 km/h =

0-62.1 mph = 14,1 s), but I also found the power delivery of the 3 litre-inline 6-cylinder (OM 603.912) smooth and even. It's for me like giving a bit of the impression some ship diesels make on me.

And the sound was different from all the competition, they were all _way_ behind in any aspect (W124 300D was built starting in 1985, except maybe Audi, but the MB cars were way better in any respect - then).

Everytime I drive a W210 E270 CDI (station, auto, 170 PS, OM 612) I'm underwhelmed by the noise, inside it is acceptable, outside it is loud and the sound is _cheap_. The engine is the same as all the competition makes', no advantage compared to them in power, sound or longevity or anything.

Of course the latter engine (OM 612) is better as it has identical fuel consumption to W124 300D in city driving and the car is much faster, too:

212 km/h = 132 mph, 0-100 km/h = 0-62.1 mph = 9.5 s, sedan = 222 km/h = 138 mph (some influence on the Vmax of course comes from the better drag coefficient of the W210).

What I definitely do not like regarding longevity and durability is the added electronics in the CDI engines, also not the VTG, the turbo with V ariable T urbine G eometry, but of course both are key components for the excellent fuel efficiency (besides the fact it is no pre-chamber engines, but direct injection ones).

I have taken several chances to talk to Taxi company owners and operators, and most of them can tell true horror stories, esp. regarding the CDIs and the W211. The majority of these stories have to do with electronics - and engine electronics has a big share in that. And even if you are under factory warranty, every failure costs money - and taxis only earn money when they are on the road, not at the dealership.

So it's no wonder the MB market share in the German taxi business has come down from ca 70 per cent to ca 50 per cent (the latter depends on the source) and if you look around you find a lot of VWs (Passat, Sharan, Touran and some T4 and T5 vans). Some German language reading here

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search string for google isMB taxi marktanteil

And also with other things there are more problems with the W210 than with the W124, many of them related to the heavily added electronics, but also the known rust problems due to cheap fabrication are nothing I like (e.g. door frames rusting - DC fixes that for free, but you can't use the car for three or so days and most customers do have to pay for a loaner car. And YES, I know very well of the W124 typical problems, from the windshield-wipers over the ignition lock to to the rear axle).

So again, that's my very personal opinion only and I know the majority thinks different, they want (note: _want_, NOT _need_) more power. And of course for not-so-good drivers a faster car is better as it's easier to compensate for their multiple inabilities than with a slower car: With the latter you have to look a long way ahead of the MB star to keep it running as acceleration is so slow - I have learned my lessons more than 20 years ago with 55 PS and 60 PS 200D auto sedans.

Juergen - 72 PS W123 240D, sedan, auto, mechanical steel sunroof, power steering, central locking, center armrest front, stereo cassette radio, right- hand outside rear-view mirror, metallic paint, that's all... And as an exception to my usual habit to talk in the usenet about the 240D only: Also a 130 PS VW Passat 3BG Variant Diesel TDI with lots of gimmicks like Navi, Xenon, heated seats, auto climate control, tiptronic auto trans, power glass sunroof, ABS, ESP, ASR, CD-Changer, multi- function display, tempomat, front and side-airbags, remote central locking, auto dimmable rear-view mirror, factory alloy wheels, chromed roof rack rails, sports seats etc. blah blah blah...

Reply to
Juergen .
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Oh, you lived in Hamburg then??

Yes, it surely sounds strange to most people, but the power increase indeed clearly was noticeable: Even in the old days one needed every single of these 55 PS often - and so this 10 per cent (ok, it's 9,1 per cent only...) increase WAS noticeable.

When I later changed to a 72 PS 240D the 20 per cent power increase was incredible - it was really fast (ok, in comparison only)!

300D with 80 PS with its 11 per cent power increase was not very noticeable compared to 240D - but the 5-cylinder sound was a dream, worlds apart from the 4-cyl sounds (and back then I could differentiate 200D, 220D and 240D by their idle sound).

But of course in today's world these cars are very slow to extremely slow and whenever someone asks in the 240D about the acceleration it's great to see their reaction when I tell them 0-100 km/h is

24.7 secs... ;-)))

Juergen

Reply to
Juergen .

Ok - I stand corrected!

Juergen

Reply to
Juergen .

W123 200D = OM 615.940 = 2L = 55 PS, later 60 W123 240D = OM 616.912 = 2,4L = 65 PS, later 72 W124 200D = OM 601.912 = 2L = 72 PS, later 75

Juergen

Reply to
Juergen .

Yes, it's fun, my sturdiest tripod for the cameras lives in the 240D trunk, my preferred car for such activities. What's particularly interesting in night photography is that you have the ability to _collect_ light with long shutter speeds and the results are often very different to the scene you saw with your eyes (although with my DSLRs the surprise effect of the days of film is gone).

(CDI engines)

They have an emergency mode so you can (slowly) drive to the dealer.

I don't say there's no CDI engines with more than 300K, but it's (IMHO only of course) remarkable that many used taxis are sold with 2xxk - I remember that being different with older models without CDI engines (often 500k or more).

But I think it's logical, with a - say - W211 E220CDI the

170 PS from the displacement of 2148 ccm _do_ come at a price: Added load on the engine and several components (also additional components like turbos and intercoolers add to complexity) do have an influence in the long run, there's (literally) no free lunch.

Also think about diesel fuel and it's quality: Nowadays the engines require a good quality, in old engines like the pre-chamber OM 616 etc. you can put in low-quality diesel, for winter operation you can even add petroleum, that'as stated in the manual - don't ever try that with a CDI!!

So, YES, CDIs are powerful and they are fuel efficient, but...

Juergen (getting older day by day)

Reply to
Juergen .

Yes, lots of, also to Africa and Arabia.

-----------------------------------------

cp wrote:

Reply to
Juergen .

Yes, definitely.

Weren't the W210 CDIs 200CDI and 220 CDI available from July 1998??

And wasn't C-Class W202 first with the C220CDI in 1997?

Juergen

Reply to
Juergen .

As you may remember from my previous posts about this vehicle, I don't bother with precise acceleration figures (even if every digit after the decimal counts...).

0 - 100 in a week is adequate description...

Yes, lived in HH for >2 years. Was tempted to take up the offer to stay longer but I returned to London. I had previously lived in Brussels for 7.5 months, moving to Hamburg after a break of three months or so. A great three years, then. Nice (tiny) apartments (penthouse with big terrace in BXL, fantastic view 'into' horizon and onto a canal of the Aussenalster with ducks and the occasional swan sliding by), new Merc 200D in HH...

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

No big deal but I thought the difference was significant in your context.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

so far it;s been reliable, durable and time will tell about longevity

Reply to
jdoe

It's like that here. Some parts of Canada, ie, Regina Sask. where my brother lives, are so cold that there's plugs in a lot of parking lots so you can plug your car block heater in while you're parked there.

Yes at -44 (F or C, it's the same at tham temp) many cars will not start without block heat, gas or disel, MB or other.

I live in Ontario and we've seen that temp a couple of times in recent memory.

Usually during the winter.

Reply to
Richard Sexton

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