At this point it may be worth swinging down to Costco to see how much
the soybean oil is. When I was buying it new it was running around $15
for a 35lb jug, and Google tells me that soybean oil runs around 7.5#
per gallon which led me to compute them as 4.5-4.7 gallons. When I
started down this path I'd pour one or two jugs in before heading down
to the fuel station, and ran ~50% mix of veggie oil. (and wow, did the
fuel filters turn black quick those first few weeks!)
However, since so much petroleum goes into the production of soybeans,
the cost is likely fairly rigidly linked to the price of fuel, so it may
be up to $18 now; haven't checked since I started dragging it away from
some of the restaurants I frequent. I could say pretty certainly though
that doing that is not enormously cost effective given the time I spend
dealing with fueling my car, but my reasons for doing it are other than
money. An hour or so a week dealing with it, plus filters and general
mess to deal with, plus a garage that smells like a fryer to displace
maybe $50 or $60 (also weekly, between the two cars&drivers) of
hassle-free pumping at the station. On the flip side, the cars run
smooth as silk, entirely unaffected by the removal of sulfur from
The Lovecraft one. I just paid them to put it in for me, but it's a
pretty straight forward install if you don't mind drilling a couple of
holes in the body (to mount the filter) and don't have a problem putting
Ts into the coolant lines in a couple of places (all of the hardware is
Tom Plunket turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
thanks for the answer - i'd be curious to hear your experiences so far. I'm
looking at getting a 300d in the next few months and have plans to either
put in a two-tank system (such as frybrid or greasel) or a one-tank system
such as lovecraft or elsbett.
Also, what are you running in the tank? Are you at 10% WVO/SVO? 50%? 80%?
The bit about Greenspan thinking zero Federal Debt would be bad was
from a very short snippet of a Larry King interview I happened to hit
upon when channel surfing when Greenspan was out selling his recently
I have no intention of buying Greenspan's book. Perhaps those
mindless automatons who still worship at the Project for a New
American Century/American Enterprise Institute altar have already
purchased the book by Reagan's Great Rudderman who never took his hand
off Reagan's tiller and they should read it for themselves.
OK, on Larry King's show, Alan Greenspan makes a comment that zero
federal debt would be bad, and that get turned into this:
"The bankers whose friends and associates profit from lending the
government the money when the budget runs a deficit were panicked
(Alan Greenspan has written about this) that the Clinton era tax and
spending levels, if continued, would result in ZERO debt, something
Greenspan saw as potentially disastrous. Yeah - disastrous for all
his buddies who make enormous profits loaning our government the same
money they should be paying in taxes. "
Let's see what an independent source like the BBC says about where
Greenspan stood on reducing the federal debt:
"But in a change of tack last month, the Clinton administration
indicated that it was also prepared to consider using some of the
surplus to reduce the overall government debt.
Such a course of action has long been advocated by Alan Greenspan, the
influential chairman of the US central bank, the Federal Reserve.
He argues that reducing government debt should take priority over tax
cuts, as the move will free funds for private investment and lower
That summary is consistent with everything I've heard Greenspan say in
testimony to Congress, speeches and interviews.
In other words, you've again taken something you don't understand at
all, and with jaundiced views, turned it into something it isn't.
Greenspan is right that zero federal debt would be a bad thing for a
number of reasons. The main one being that the FED buys and sells
govt securities in the open market to affect interest rates. If they
want to lower rates and stimulate the economy, they buy govt
securities. Without those to buy, they would have to find some other
financial vehicle, which opens up all kinds of protential problems.
If at least part of that debt is used to finance long term capital
items, like bridges, roads, or an aircraft carrier, it's no different
than a homeowner buying a house with a mortgage. The key here is the
relation of the total debt to the size of the US economy. It's still
not anywhere near historic levels when compared to the economy, but I
agree it would be good for it to be lowered. And Geenspan was always
in favor of reducing the present level of Federal debt and less govt
If you bought the book, you might learn something. As for
Greenspan's stewardship at the FED, only a tiny minority would bitch
about that. At the beginning of his chairmanship, the economy was in
a disaster, unemployment was 9%, inflation 7%, and govt bonds were
yeilding 18%. He was there with Reagan when all that was reversed
through tax cuts and sound monetary policy, resulting in the longest
expansion in peace time history.
I live just north of San Diego, California, so it's pretty much warm and
sunny every day of the year. In the winter, it might get down to
freezing in the mornings, so it's a little tricky to start, but
generally my mix is vegetable oil unless I run out. Last fill, I put 2
gallons of petrodiesel in to fill the tank, but that's the first time
I've been to the filling station in months. However, with the noticably
improved mileage I think I'll keep topping off with petrodiesel since
it's not too bad if you're only dropping $10 every couple of weeks...
(On top of 100% WVO that's primarily soy.)
Considered multi-tanking it, but where I live there's just no need. I
do a pretty thorough job filtering it, and haven't needed to change a
fuel filter since I did the conversion. I was running an SVO blend
(30-60% at any given time) with petrodiesel before getting the
conversion done. The oil is a lot darker than diesel fuel, it's sorta
like amber "grade A" maple syrup, but it's otherwise completely
transparent. I chalk that up to the obsessive-compulsive 5 micron
filter bags hanging into the drums in my shed. (Wow, they get full of
some mean sludgy nastiness, not to mention the occasional peanut,
greenbean, french fry, and even a screw once!)
Tom Plunket turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
I'm in the same boat - I'm in Los Angeles. It will drop into the 40's on a
regular basis but never less than 60 in my garage.
That's what i was wondering.
I see many posts - both here and on places like benzworld - where they
completely deride single-tank systems for using 100% WVO and the cold
climates. However, I wanted to hear a first-hand experience from a local
who uses either 100% SVO/WVO or a mix.
So you filter your own? Do you collect as well? I'm thinking it would be
easier - and more convenient - for me to have it delivered already filtered
in 50 gallon containers. I see rates in the middle $2/gallon around here.
My friend did the Lovecraft conversion last year on his 87 300SDL. He ran
100% WVO... without diesel, his mileage is around 20MPG. With diesel he gets
25MPG. However, I think he needs new injectors as his is way over 200,000
I filter all the oil for him. I finally got it figured out and I filter to 1
Micron. I can do 30 gallons in about 2 hours liesurely. We collect our own
I will convert mine soon. We live in Northern NJ. He ran full WVO in 40
degree... he had a bit of hard time to start but once going, he is fine. I
told him repeatedly to fill some regular diesel to thin it out for cold
weather... I think he wants to experiement. We also had a hard time
filtering the oil but I got it all worked out and fast.
Kerosene is more expensive, but you need less of it to reduce the
viscosity of the mixture. So prices, and the temperature are the
variables that it will depend on. people also cut WVO with gasoline to
thin it out. Chea[er, and quite thin. You have to use the cheap stuff.
Do not use anything but cheap gasoline, and never more than 15% in
your mix. Some will actually let the gasoline go stale and drop in
octane so it will burn better. There is loads about it on the
biodiesel.infopop forum. Go into the blending section of the forum.
Yeah, I don't know that it'd work very well unless you kept your car
garaged, never parked it outdoors for long, and maybe even had a block
heater. Or blend it with petrodiesel, but still- my experience starting
my car in the (barely) freezing weather is that it is Not Easy. If I
lived in VT, I'd definitely go not only dual-tank but also route coolant
through my veggie oil.
Down in SoCal, though, dual-tank is a waste of energy. :)
Yeah, that sounds like a ticket. $2/gallon seems steep for something
that's already been sold once, but if they're bringing it to your house
I could see it being worth it. Plus you wouldn't need to worry about
running out (I'm always right on the edge; the two 50-gallon drums in my
shed have less than five gallons a piece in them, although I've got
about 20G to pour tomorrow and another 50 or so for the coming weeks).
So I also have a garage full of vegetable oil jugs yet-to-be-filtered,
and it kinda stinks.
Just an update on soybean oil prices....,
My friend in so. California just reported that 5 gallon oil jugs at
smart & final are currently $27.95 (were
18.00 in 2006) and $23.95 at Restaurant Depot (were $ 14.95 in 2006).
Do any of you WVO people check the pH of your oil?
I don't care to hear any moaning about fuel prices from you UK people,
as long as your government uses fuel taxes to fund their socialist
polices you will pay exorbitant amounts for fuel, crude oil prices are
the same around the world, the differences in prices is the taxes
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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