Car seems harsher after replacing Crankshaft Pulley

Take the car back and demand that they do the cam and balance belt installation properly, according the procedures in the Mitsubish workshop manual. The vibration and harshness you you describe is EXACTLY what happens when the correct procedure to align the cams, balance shaft and oil pump is not done correctly. A lot of mechanics will try to "mark the belt position" to save time, or forget about the oil pump. It almost never works.

You might try (as last resort) suggesting that if the belt alignment is in fact correct that you'll pay the labour ...

Stewart DIBBS

If they replaced the timing belt(s) I would lay odds that they failed to get the timing marks aligned properly.........

Hi Stewart:

I was over the moon to read your reply. I had arranged a private mechanic to take a look at the car and I rang him this morning to tell him of your diagnosis. He checked his information on the Galant and he reckons you are spot on, I can't remember the exact words but it said something like, "....if the alignment is not correct there will be a harshness in the drive."

Even my wife could notice the harshness, yet the chief mechanic could not detect it, and thought it was because I was revving the car unduly.

Anyhow, I have booked the car in tomorrow at 9.00 am with this private mechanic and hopefully I will get the car restored. I will keep you & Outlander posted on the outcome

Any ideas what could have caused the car to go into limp mode with the engine management light on. Mitsubishi said it was error code 44 (ignition coil?), but they did not think this could be true because switching the ignition off and immediately back on, caused the light to go off and normal power to be restored.

Touch wood it hasn't gone since Thursday 22nd July when it failed 3 times, once on test with the mechanic, (with me driving), and twice on the way back home.

Many thanks Stewart and my sincere appreciation for your help

Regards

John Lewis >> I have a 97 Galant 2.0. which has only 37,600 miles on the clock.

Hi Outlander:

Both yourself and Stewart are agreed on this. Please see my fuller reply to Stewart. I am extremely grateful to you both for your help.

If only I could get to the bottom of what caused the engine management light to come on I would have total peace of mind. As mentioned in my reply to Stewart the car is going in tomorrow so hopefully I will be able to confirm your diagnosis.

Many thanks & best regards

John Lewis, South Wales, UK

I would guess its the same problem: missaligned belts. If the timing is off, the ECU will do its best to compensate, including adjusting the spark advance, but eventually it gives up and you get the check engine light. See what happens once the belt alignment is fixed.

Stewart DIBBS

Hi Stewart:

What you say sounds logical to me. The dealer said they checked the ignition timing and it was spot on. I don't know how they measure it these days but in the seventies it was measured at a fast idle. So whilst it might be right at low revs as you say it could be very wide of the mark at higher revs.

I have decided against going to a private mechanic for the time being. I think that would be letting them off to easy. I think your advice of demanding they put it right, is good advice. If something is damaged as a result of their poor workmanship and I have taken it elsewhere they will wash their hands of the matter. This afternoon I spoke to customer relations for Mitsubishi UK and told them my story and your & Outlanders diagnosis. They are taking the matter up with the dealer concerned.

I get the distinct impression that you know your stuff, are you a professional by any chance?

Thanks again Stewart, if you are interested would you like me to keep the newsgroup posted?

Best regards

John Lewis, South Wales, UK

Unfortunately John, your problem is just too common. Here in the U.S.A. we have a Mitsu group that's focused around the Eclipse and Talon autos. If you were to search the archives in any of the forums you'll find many others who's Dealer has done the same to them. It happened to me twice! I switched to a private mechanic as I taught myself the work. I have no association with the local dealers, not even for parts...they're just sorry. Here is a link to a page that explains a lot of the service proceedures on the Eclipse. Follow it to the section on Timing belts and you get a pretty good idea of what's involved with you car and what went wrong.

The ignition timing may well be spot on but the cam timing could be off.TG

Hi TG:

Thanks for that comment I will include it in my letter.

Regards

John

Hi

I was under the impression that services were much tighter controlled in the USA than here on Treasure Island, (UK) At least I think you have it easier to get redress when things go wrong, or is that another wrong impression.

Regards

John

Absolutely true. Local dealer hosed my daughter's boyfriend on a routine timing belt replacement job on a Corolla. Car ran fine before and like crud afterward. The service writer said it was fine, that "they're all like that", that it had to "wear in", and that the BF was crazy. I spoke to the service manager in private and explained to him in no uncertain terms that I would do whatever he forced me to do if he failed to do the right thing. In short, the work was redone and the car runs fine now. You may have to really press them to do the right thing. Some of the bastards will blow you off if they think they can get away with it. For email remove "_no_spam_"

G'Day Mister Skippy

I put everything down in writing this morning and emphasised the safety concerns of driving a vehicle which is likely to cut out. I also included the postings I received from guys on this newsgroup to support what I was saying was correct. I copied it to Mitsubishi UK and within an hour the local dealer rang me and asked me to bring the car in.

I did so this afternoon and they loaned me a new Fiat Punto Diesel which feels even harsher than the Galant even with its mis-aligned belts No wonder they thought it was OK!!!

Anyhow I would like to thank all that have helped me on this. Hopefully I can get a result on this.

Regards

John >>

Hi All:

The main dealer just rang me to tell me that they had checked the car and did eveything by the book, but not found any error.

Any ideas wher I go from here. I will collect the car tomorrow morning so any suggestions befor 10:00 AM GMT will be appreciated

Regards

John >Hi All:

I am a mechanic ("auto technician"....) living in the US, and have so much trouble with this group, i.e. strange model names, that I don't reply often. Sometimes it's best to give no info, instead of wrong info....

You said you replaced ALL belts, and I'll assume this engine has a balance shaft belt ~ I've had many Asian cars, mostly Mitsubishi, show up with vibration after a belt replacement at another shop ~ the balance shaft is not merely aligned with marks on the pulley and block, but must be indexed with a tool (drift, bolt, rod, etc) to assure that its gear mechanism is in synch with the crankshaft. It's hard to believe that a dealer would overlook this, but I've seen it.

An independent shop can check this alignment quickly (on a lift) by removing a plug in the block, checking the balance shaft index, and then looking at the cam timing.

If this is difficult to arrange, then check at the dealership for a car similar to yours, identical engine; take the service rep for a ride, and then compare the engine's "feel" with him to the vibration in your car. Watch his face carefully as he says your car is normal....

Quite possibly, paying for my plane ticket over the Pond could prove a bargain....

DC3

Hi DC3

I see no point in my taking the car back to the dealer. I too was thinking of taking it to someone else but what worries me is finding someone with the knowledge of the procedure. Mitsubishi Galants are not that common so mechanics familiar with them don't exactly grow on trees.

I have a friend who is a retired mechanic and has done a great deal of rally preparation in his younger days. He would check it for me if I could get the exact procedure details.

My Galant is a United Kingdom, 1997, 4 cylinder SOHC, Engine model

Any chance you could elaborate on the procedure below, please?

Thanks and regards

John

I will take your info to my shop, and see what I have ~ possibly a jpeg would be worth a thousand words.... I'll be at my shop on Sunday, and will try to reply that evening.

My point in returning to the dealer involved showing him by comparison that the car is NOT normal. To have a service rep put down on paper that the engine is vibrating worse than a similar model would enable you to bill the dealership for the repairs they can't seem to do properly.

DC3

Hi DC3

possibly a jpeg would be worth a thousand words.... I'll be at my shop on Sunday, and will try to reply that evening>My point in returning to the dealer involved showing him by comparison that the car is NOT normal. To have a service rep put down on paper that the engine is vibrating worse than a similar model would enable you to bill the dealership for the repairs they can't seem to do properly.I will take your info to my shop, and see what I have ~

John have you resolved the problem why your old pulley was rubbing the covers?---this can only be caused by it being loose or out of balance--or worst case crank wobble From my small dealings with mitsubishi there are nearly always several different part numbers for each car (you need to match engine number etc)--especially in europe not being familiar with you engine--but from what you describe--it could be the cam and or the ignition timings etc or a combination of both etc--one tooth out on the cam belt and it will still run but give you the performance of a diesel(run rough as you say) As i have said in other posts i look after a cosy 4x4 turbo group A car---similar troubles have been prooved to be the cam belt jumping a tooth (bad belt/worn adjuster) a bad ignition sensor on the crank (not easy to trace) and engine managment systems having a bad day (damp connections etc) I thoroughly concur with taking the matter up with the manufacturer----to keep you happy why do they not send your car to another service center?

best of luck Timberwolf

Hi Timberwolf:

Thanks for your help. Please see the new thread I started, "Galant Timing Belt Installation". It turns out they haven't exactly done it by the book. On Saturday, an independent guy is having a look at it for me.

Best regards

John >