End of America/Fall of Rome

You are exceeding the parameters of your original statement.

Anything you can buy with a credit/debit card, and anything covered by those Dog-awful points programs, can be purchased with cash. Sure, there's a convenience issue, but you can do it.

Depends on what you are buying.

Day to day household purchases, yes.

BTW: even though I know it is built in to the purchase price and is a kickback system, I do enjoy the benifits of the "points" program. I can manage a family holiday every couple of years if I gear my purchases to maximize the points. Of course that gives the points people a complete list of what I have purchased over the years (product and price) and my spending habits, but maybe it will make companies compete more for my dollars and offer better products at lower price. I can only hope.

take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me

Thank you, Dale, for that compliment! We all know the real truth is totally opposite from what comes out of you and your keyboard.

Wayne Brasch

Give me three examples of items costing $20K or more that you can, as a matter of fact, purchase with a credit or debit card. At least one of those examples must be of an item costing at least $100K.

I eagerly await your examples.

Okay. I respect your choice to participate. It's obviously an informed choice, so nobody can argue with it. Choose not to participate because I do *not* want my every expenditure tracked.

Shifting rules...Your challenge is irrelevant.

The limit is $10,000.00 in cash when the bank starts asking where you got it from when you deposit. Usually items that can not be paid for with a credit card or debit card can be paid for with a bank draft or a promisary note called a cheque in lieu of cash.

And I know of no items over $100,000.00 that can be paid for with a credit card although there was a fellow who recently used an American express card to purchase a 3 million dollar item. I'm sure this was a publicity stunt.

As for purchases over $20,000.00, Some folks in business use a credit card just like a cheque book. I know farmers who will routinely spend $25,000 to $30,000.00 at a shot buying fertilizer or farm supplys and the vendor is greatfull to put it on the farmers credit card as the vendor is guaranteed to get paid. And I am aware of folks who have purchased vehicles over $10,000.00 using cash, also some folks have used credit cards (to get the points or cash rebate)

I really don't care if they know what brand of dog food I buy. And I do like the extended warrantee and insurance plan my credit card company has on the purchases I make with the card. And carrying a credit card or debit card is much less hassle than writing cheques. There are some advantages. However Cash is still king! And I do appreciate those who deal only in cash. I carry a reserve just to deal with them.... I do use several credit cards.

take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me

Have you refuted anything I have written? Or is it too close to the truth for you to handle? Cite the lies please? Refute my claims with facts please? You haven't yet. You have only resorted to personal attacks.

take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me

wrote:

It's just Peter's style -- ignore it.

========= Peter is trained to attack. He has yet to learn 'stop...bad dog'.

| >

| >>You are wasting time Fred, this 10x creature is a cowardly liar, who | >>will just run and hide when faced with his gross lies. | >>

| >

| >

| > Have you refuted anything I have written? | > Or is it too close to the truth for you to handle? | > Cite the lies please? | > Refute my claims with facts please? | > You haven't yet. | > You have only resorted to personal attacks. | | It's just Peter's style -- ignore it.

| >

| >

| >>10x@teluös.net wrote: | >>

| >>>On Sun, 15 May 2005 23:08:54 -0500, Fred wrote: | >>>

| >>>

| >>>

| >>>>10x@teluös.net wrote: | >>>>

| >>>>

| >>>>>On Sun, 15 May 2005 10:41:59 -0500, Fred wrote: | >>>>>

| >>>>>

| >>>>>

| >>>>>

| >>>>>>10x@teluös.net wrote: | >>>>>>

| >>>>>>

| >>>>>>

| >>>>>>>On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:06:31 -0500, Fred wrote: | >>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>>10x@teluös.net wrote: | >>>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>>>BTW: with ups codes, debit purchases, credit card purchases, and | >>>>>>>>>purchasing points programs, big business already knows your spending | >>>>>>>>>habits, where you spend money and what you spend you money on. | >>>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>>Only to the extent that *you* (not me; you) authorize They to have it. | >>>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>>Use cash. It's accepted everywhere, we can buy anything we want with it, | >>>>>>>>and the most They knows about it is how much we withdrew from our accounts. | >>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>

| >>>>>>>Sadly for ammounts over $10,000.00 they want you to show I.D. and | >>>>>>>explain where you got the cash from. | >>>>>>>Just try getting $20,000.00 in cash from your local bank, let alone | >>>>>>>$100,000.00 or a million. It is not very easy to do. | >>>>>>>ANd if you ask for it in small bills they really question you. | >>>>>>

| >>>>>>You are exceeding the parameters of your original statement. | >>>>>

| >>>>>

| >>>>>Depends on what you are buying. | >>>>

| >>>>Give me three examples of items costing $20K or more that you can, as a | >>>>matter of fact, purchase with a credit or debit card. At least one of | >>>>those examples must be of an item costing at least $100K. | >>>

| >>>

| >>>Shifting rules...Your challenge is irrelevant. | >>>

| >>>The limit is $10,000.00 in cash when the bank starts asking where you | >>>got it from when you deposit. | >>>Usually items that can not be paid for with a credit card or debit | >>>card can be paid for with a bank draft or a promisary note called a | >>>cheque in lieu of cash. | >>>

| >>>And I know of no items over $100,000.00 that can be paid for with a | >>>credit card although there was a fellow who recently used an American | >>>express card to purchase a 3 million dollar item. I'm sure this was a | >>>publicity stunt. | >>>

| >>>As for purchases over $20,000.00, Some folks in business use a credit | >>>card just like a cheque book. I know farmers who will routinely spend | >>>$25,000 to $30,000.00 at a shot buying fertilizer or farm supplys and | >>>the vendor is greatfull to put it on the farmers credit card as the | >>>vendor is guaranteed to get paid. | >>>And I am aware of folks who have purchased vehicles over $10,000.00 | >>>using cash, also some folks have used credit cards (to get the points | >>>or cash rebate) | >>>

| >>>

| >>>

| >>>>>>Anything you can buy with a credit/debit card, and anything covered by | >>>>>>those Dog-awful points programs, can be purchased with cash. Sure, | >>>>>>there's a convenience issue, but you can do it. | >>>>>

| >>>>>

| >>>>>Day to day household purchases, yes. | >>>>

| >>>>I eagerly await your examples. | >>>>

| >>>>

| >>>>

| >>>>>BTW: even though I know it is built in to the purchase price and is a | >>>>>kickback system, I do enjoy the benifits of the "points" program. I | >>>>>can manage a family holiday every couple of years if I gear my | >>>>>purchases to maximize the points. Of course that gives the points | >>>>>people a complete list of what I have purchased over the years | >>>>>(product and price) and my spending habits, but maybe it will make | >>>>>companies compete more for my dollars and offer better products at | >>>>>lower price. I can only hope. | >>>>

| >>>>Okay. I respect your choice to participate. It's obviously an informed | >>>>choice, so nobody can argue with it. Choose not to participate because I | >>>>do *not* want my every expenditure tracked. | >>>

| >>>

| >>>I really don't care if they know what brand of dog food I buy. | >>>And I do like the extended warrantee and insurance plan my credit card | >>>company has on the purchases I make with the card. | >>>And carrying a credit card or debit card is much less hassle than | >>>writing cheques. | >>>There are some advantages. | >>>However Cash is still king! | >>>And I do appreciate those who deal only in cash. I carry a reserve | >>>just to deal with them.... | >>>I do use several credit cards. | >>>

| >>>

| >>>

| >>>take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me | >

| >

| >

| >

| >

| > take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me | | | -- | Will | A liberal -- but definitely not a (shudder) Liberal.

Thank you for correcting me.

You don't need I.D. to purchase, just to register automobiles. Farm equipment over 10,000.00 you just need the cash. This leaves the tax system open to abuse as to how much the vendor reports that you paid for this but the bull of sale is a record.

Bill of sale would cover this???

But enough cash can get you anything, including killed.

take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me

Thank you for correcting me.

You don't need I.D. to purchase, just to register automobiles. Farm equipment over 10,000.00 you just need the cash. This leaves the tax system open to abuse as to how much the vendor reports that you paid for this but the bull of sale is a record.

Bill of sale would cover this???

But enough cash can get you anything, including killed.

take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me

wrote:

Well that is the point -- isn't it? Who is the bill of sale "made out to" -- John Smith? The _other_ party has to show an SOF statement for the transaction as well. There is a bank deposit and stuff - right? Or the money is used elsewhere in the business. And of course the transaction would not stand up to an audit or a review exchange or a forensic audit if anybody ever appeared with a search warrant. You need a willing partner to hide a transaction of or over $5K -- and a plausible way to launder the funds. Note the nasty "L" word.

Of course in the US they also have to worry about "structuring" -- splitting the transaction into small parts to avoid notice -- something not recognized in Canada. ...Since US groups are on the list.

This is all speculation on my part of course and knowledge from reading books. So clearly you do know more than me. It's just that I happened to notice some of the legal changes while researching other stuff. Just for the record, I have never done this sort of stuff. Clearly you have, and probably lately though you had more people watching than you realized. And clearly your transactions were legit. However -- bet your boots -- they were recorded -- just like your charge slips.

Life is always exciting in some places.

wrote:

Well that is the point -- isn't it? Who is the bill of sale "made out to" -- John Smith? The _other_ party has to show an SOF statement for the transaction as well. There is a bank deposit and stuff - right? Or the money is used elsewhere in the business. And of course the transaction would not stand up to an audit or a review exchange or a forensic audit if anybody ever appeared with a search warrant. You need a willing partner to hide a transaction of or over $5K -- and a plausible way to launder the funds. Note the nasty "L" word.

Of course in the US they also have to worry about "structuring" -- splitting the transaction into small parts to avoid notice -- something not recognized in Canada. ...Since US groups are on the list.

This is all speculation on my part of course and knowledge from reading books. So clearly you do know more than me. It's just that I happened to notice some of the legal changes while researching other stuff. Just for the record, I have never done this sort of stuff. Clearly you have, and probably lately though you had more people watching than you realized. And clearly your transactions were legit. However -- bet your boots -- they were recorded -- just like your charge slips.

Life is always exciting in some places.

Ah. I see. But are you sure that *businesses* have to justify large deposits? I know that individuals do, but I've never heard of a business having to do anything other than make the deposit to a legitimate business account.

As for withdrawals, the largest cash withdrawal I can recall making was a bit over $2K in US funds from a Canadian bank, and they handed it over without batting an eye. $10K and up might be a different story.

Just as a guess, he "forgot" to declare it.

$5K and up is a different story.

Any amount if you are suspected of structuring -- a Yankee crime.

Or arousing the tellers suspicion -- then they file a funds movement/incident report.

If you want to be a crook -- get it right. LOL

I will bet you're right -- as I recall. He figured it was trifling matter as I recall now.

Course it is how you do business in some countries. I recall it was on the African Continent - maybe Kenya was on the tour? Wish I could remember more details. Toronto (Pearson) airport...

Five thousand in cash isn't bad, they do want advance notice for anything over ten thousand though.

take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me

Five thousand in cash isn't bad, they do want advance notice for anything over ten thousand though.

take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me

They just hauled out a big stack of US $100 bills and started counting. Didn't hesitate for a second. And this wasn't a large branch, either, it was a storefront branch in a shopping mall.

Telus.net, eh? Check your bills carefully. Those crooks tried to say I owed them for services rendered after I had closed my account. The bill even said that the charges were for activity on a closed account! But heck, Bank of Montreal tried that stunt, too. Come to think of it, so did Alberta Health Care. One bank, one public utility, one government agency. By contrast, Canadian private businesses never gave me a moments' problem.