I got an e-mail showing off this guy's Vauxhall
Nice little car. It's humorously compared to the Bugatti Veyron as
being "quicker". While the Vauxhall obviously would win in a 1/4 mile
drag, how much distance do you think the Veyron would need to pass it
assuming both left their foot in it? 1 mile? 2 miles?
I'm not very familiar with European cars, but I like the lines of that
As shown in the video, it runs an 7.8s quarter mile at 187mph. I assume
it'll be geared such that it's not far off V_max at the end of the run,
but Burgerman is the chap to ask about that. IIRC the Veyron runs about
10.5 @ 140ish mph, so something of a walkover for the vaux..
Assuming ideal gearing for highest possible speed and an infinitely long
test straight, then noddy aerodynamics calcs suggest that the vaux will
be quicker IF its cdA is not more than about 30% greater than that of
the veyron, but I'm not sure if that's very likely.
As I said there wouldnt be much in it. But the Vauxhall would be there in
half a mile roughly and the veyron? Dunno... Probably 2 miles judging by the
Maclaren F1 we were playing with at bruntingthorp.
It was getting 220 through our timing lights after 1.5miles of runway.
Interestingly my own new un run in stock 1100 wp suzuki (derestricted) left
it for dead coming onto the main runway. From 35mph up to say 140 the bike
pulled away so fast the car was a small dot. From then on the bike takes a
further mile to hit say 165 due to the bad aerodynamics. At about just past
half the runway but the dot gets bigger and bigger! At the timing lights
just before the braking boards the car is in front of me by several lengths
and triggering the lights at over 220. At this point I was doing maybe 173
to 175 according to the radar so it comes past like you are parked. So the
cars acceleration from 120 on is much better than the bike and improves as
speed increases. Power to weight is less on the mclaren but its slippery
shape makes up for it on a two mile drag. But not by much. On the road with
bends, traffic etc it would lose quite easily.
In the same way the veyron would lose on a motorway chase because the top
speed is pretty impossible to achieve - no time/space - but the vauxhall can
accelerate massively harder. Throw in some corners though and a roads and it
would be the veyron...
Do you mean against that Vauxhall? How do you figure the Vauxhall wins
in a highway chase? If I understand correctly, you said your bike got
slaughtered in a 1.5 mile dragrace with a top speed pretty close to
what the Vauxhall is capable of in dragstrip trim. It would seem the
Vauxhall's acceleration advantage is only up to a certain point.
That Veyron wouldn't have to hit anywhere near its top speed to beat
that Vauxhall. At 180 the Vauxhall is sucking wind, the Veyron is
accelerating hard. While the Vauxhall can go around 190, how long can
it maintain it? And how stable is it going to be at that speed
compared to the Veyron?
An aerodynamics calc says a car purpose-built to go the better part of
300 mph has an aero *disadvantage* compared to a mass-produced
passenger car from the '70's? He's got some mods on the Vaux body, but
It has the power and gearing to go a 1/4 mi about 2.5 secs faster - on
a dragstrip on drag tires - ending up at just about its top speed if
it's set up correctly as a drag car.
"What it can maintain" is certainly a crucial issue under the highway
race scenario proposed. If you put taller gears in it to theoretically
give it more top speed, as well as tires made for maintained speeds
near or over 200mph it's going to lose a lot of that short-distance
advantage. And pushing that brick any faster would be inviting
Also, unless we see a verified dyno test of that Vauxhall's engine,
we've got only his word for it that it makes 2000hp. People are known
to embellish such claims. And where is that engine making its power?
Aren't the powerband characteristics of the engine important?
It's pretty obviously implied when talking about a highway race.
There's probably as much $$ in just the high-tech suspension and
hardware to keep that Veyron stuck to the road as that guy spent total
on the Vauxhall dragster.
You say there's not enough distance to get to full speed - if it gets
over 220 in 1.5 miles, doesn't seem he needs much distance to go
plenty fast. Aren't there straightaways longer than that in Europe?
That Vaux normally only needs to maintain that top speed for a couple
of seconds before shutting down. A whole different game than going
down the highway.
If that Veyron ever gets even with the Vauxhall at speeds like 120,
130, and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't, how do you figure
he's not going to leave the Vaux in the dust when he's getting into
his powerband and has at least another 120 mph in his back-pocket and
isn't in danger of going airborn approaching and beyond 200?
With streetable tires, drag-race suspension, laughable aerodynamics,
even with taller gears, I just don't see that Vauxhall looking like
such a hero in a "highway chase" scenario vs the Veyron.
Btw, how does your bike compare to a Yamaha R1? There's video on
YouTube of an R1 getting repeatedly, seriously smoked by a Veyron.
Yeah, but the cdA only needs to be under 30% more than that of the
Veyron - it's not easy to get a 30% reduction. According to Gordon
the cdA of the Veyron isn't _that_ low anyway. As Burgerman says, it is
probably close a close-run thing.
That 2.7 seconds is a *HUGE* difference. The average acceleration is
almost twice as high in the Vaux over the quarter mile. Almost certainly
it will be good for over 200mph, because the power will drop off after
the peak, and it will definitely get there a hell of a lot sooner and be
a hell of a lot further down the road when it does.
As Burgerman says, in a give and take race on the motorway, where speeds
probably aren't going to venture above 200mph that much, the vaux is
pretty certain to win. If you throw in nasty surfaces, bends or long
smooth straights, then it becomes less clear and probably favours the
Veyron. Possibly :-)
> Also, unless we see a verified dyno test of that Vauxhall's engine,
Of course, but then it does post a 1/4 mile time which roughly
corresponds with what you might expect for the claimed power figure.
The video showed it to be surprisingly tractable when tootling.
There are plenty of straight sections of that sort of length, but the
Vaux gets to 200+mph in less than 0.5 mile, so it will have made rather
a significant lead by the time the Veyron matches it's top speed, one
OK, stuff it, lets do the geek thing properly :) I've done a noddy
excel drag-race, using the available data for both cars. Assuming that
the Vaux has a max speed of 200mph then we get:
The veyron overtakes after 36s, 3km down the road
If the Vaux can hit 210mph, then it looks like:
This time the Veyron takes 42s and 3.5km to overtake.
I haven't produced the graphs, but if V-max for the vaux were 240mph,
then it takes just over 100s and 10.5km!
I should point out that this is entirely based on noddy physics and
googled data, so should be taken with a pinch or 10 of salt :-D
Heh, our Burgerman was/is the full-fat nutcase type of drag biker - I'm
not sure about the specifics, but it was some sort of fast sports bike
with a huge turbo and nitrous, getting about 300HP at the wheel, IIRC.
Quite a lot quicker than an R1, anyway, I'd imagine.
But the point that keeps getting ignored are the conditions under
which it does it. Take away the dragstrip tires and the sticky
dragstrip surface and what does it then become? Weren't the Veyron's
times on street tires on concrete?
Strictly speculation. We know it's good for I believe they said 183
(186?) was its trap speed. Whether it can go much faster than this is
speculation. Not speculation is how much less control he's going to
have over it at those speeds.
We KNOW the Veyron is good for 253 mph - there's video of it doing it
and STILL incrementally climbing.
Define "a helluva lot". Assuming 1.) they start from a standing start
as opposed to "they encounter each other driving down the highway and
have a go at it" 2.) he matches his record time he's 2.7 secs ahead
at 1/4 mile. Except he's not going to since he's going to be on
street tires on a street surface so we can safely hack off what, at
least 1.5 secs or so? If he's been allowed to put taller gears in it,
all that will do is reduce his 1/4 mile time even further. Under THOSE
conditions, how much is he going to be ahead?
Burgerman already related what happened when he had a considerable
head start on the Veyron. He got trashed at 1.5 miles even though he
was doing close to 180.
And if the Vaux and Veyron were to go at it from a highway speed
start, how do you figure the Veyron as the underdog?
Over a couple of miles, why not? Of course, in the case of the Vaux,
it's unknown whether it can even do it.
Have you seen that video of the Veyron vs the Audi R8? If the specs I
saw are correct, that Audi is a near 190 mph car . They punch it from
a highway speed start - with the Audi going first. When the Veyron
floors it, it looks like the Audi slammed the brakes on even though
he's accelerating, and damn quickly given how fast he's reading off
the speed 100 - 110 - 120 about as fast as he can say it. Yet by the
time he hits 120 that Veyron is GONE.
At what, 50 mph? Let's see how it holds the road at 170+ over a
On drag tires on a dragstrip. And we don't know it'll do 200 or if the
guy will be toying with suicide trying to pilot it down the road near
that speed. He normally goes in a straight line and for a few
seconds. And from a highway speed start, the entire scenario
Again, which is going to be considerably shortened under street
conditions. Now who wins in a "drag race" from say 120 to 200?
Not familiar with this "noddy" I keep seeing pop up. ?? Please
translate to American. Also, what about the phrase "not a lot in it"
Don't forget that the Veyron like the M5 is electronically limited to it's
top speed, unofficially Bugatti techs say it will do the far side of 270 when
de restricted but no one will make a road tyre that's up to it.
Hmmm. On the top-gear vid, it was climbing very slowly to the 407km/h
mark - it looked more like it was asymtoting to it's V-max than hitting
a limiter. It certainly didn't look like it would ever get near 270.
The original question, which I was trying to answer was "While the
Vauxhall obviously would win in a 1/4 mile drag, how much distance do
you think the Veyron would need to pass it assuming both left their foot
in it? 1 mile? 2 miles?", so I simply assumed that this was being run on
an arbitrarily long dragstrip. Anything else throws more unknowns into
the mix and renders the problem entirely unto the realm of supposition,
rather than that of wild extrapolation and randomly chosen googled data.
I'm suspect that an optimised dragster will hit the finish line as it
reaches peak power in top gear, however the engine will undoubtedly rev
beyond peak_power_rpm, and so the top speed will be higher than the trap
speed - in a drag race you are interested in
integral(integral(acceleration)) wrt time, i.e. minimising time, rather
than hitting V_max. I don't think that it is unreasonable speculation
to assume that it can run higher speed than the trap speed.
As to stability and control, I'm sure the veyron would be vastly better,
as you say. If I had to pick one to throw down a real road, it'd be the
Veyron, for certain.
Lots and lots and lots. I did pretty graphs and everything :-)
> If he's been allowed to put taller gears in it,
I have no idea, but quite a bit. Even limited to 1.5G acceleration, as
it would be on sticky road tyres, the vaux is going to accelerate much
more quickly than the Veyron, because it has about 4 times the
power:weight ratio. By the time the aerodynamics start to play a part,
the Veyron is not accelerating VERY quickly, and will be a reasonable
distance behind, so it will take him a while to catch up. I can't be
any more specific without some hard data..
I think that was against a McLaren F1, but yes, the more aerodynamic
vehicle eventually overtook the less aerodynamic one. I think 'trashed'
is a slightly emotive word in the context - at 1.25 miles the McLaren
would have been 'trashed' by the bike?
The BMW M5 can hit 200mph with 500Hp, so lets be conservative and say
that the vaux needs 700Hp to do the same. From aero calcs, the Veyron
needs about 490Hp. The acceleration is given by (engine power-drag
power)/mass, so at 200Mph the vaux has an excess of 1500Hp to accelerate
its ~1000kg, whereas the Veyron has ~500Hp to accelerate its 1700kg - at
200mph the vaux will accelerate 3 times as quickly as the Veyron!
I haven't seen it, but the Audi R8 has 420Hp and weighs 1600kg - the
Veyron should be vastly quicker, especially at high speed.
The vaux, by a country mile.
Yo, listen up y'all. Noddy was this dude who rocked about in some,
like, totally blinged-out, clockwork wheels down in Toyland.
*ahem* sorry, sorry. 'Noddy' was a series of books for children,
written by Enid Blyton, and is used to mean 'simple' or in my case
'wildly inaccurate by dint of unjustified supposition'.
It wont reduce times by much and the increased final drive will actually
help to put the power down as less torque gets delivered to the wheels but
up to a higher speed. If it effected its quarter mile terminal speed by more
than a few mph I would be amazed but it could ad say half a sec max to the
But it was a mclaren, and I was on a bike with low power to weight compared
to the vauxhall!
Because both have a similar top speed potential but the vauxhall has much
much better power to weight! It will accelerate TWICE as hard.
With the correct gearing of course it can do it.
Flat out it is. It has the power to weight of a moped with a fat bloke on
The Vauxhall has about ten times that power to weight and double the veyron.
They punch it from
Its a slow low powered car.
Put the veyron on the drag strip compare that to the vauxhall and you will
see that its just driving off going on a shopping run.. Its a different
world of performance.
We cant. But why not? My V8 nitrous sierra (was an old reps 1.6) with
knackered suspension and Colway 205 60 13 remoulds would go 150 for mile
after mile. Whats another few mph?
I dont think he quite gets how powerful and how hard this thing lauches and
goes! Its accellerating harder at 150 than the veyron can off the line! May
I suggest a trip to the drag strip and watch a few pro mods go. They run the
same sort of times. Once you have had your idea of power recalibrated you
will just see a veyron as a low powered streamlined car that does its 250
due only to good aerodynamics and a long 2 plus mile run up.
In your mind it seems to. Its really not a problem! It might not be as good
as a veyron but that does not make it dangerous or unstable.
The vauxhall would absolutely murder the veyron under ANY speed range
acceleration. Gearing allowing of course.
Means very close! noddy = http://pbskids.org/noddy/ Think micky mouse tools
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.