Sign of the times...

Superior Italian design, see.

Obviously, this proves that I have been right all along.....

Nothing to do with times being hard and giving the job to the cheapest bidder, no matter how crap a job they do, then? ;-)

Both the Panda and the 500 are class leaders, as is the 1.3 JTD.

So, no.... it's because Fiat have superior design skills.

Assembly in a Polski-Fiat plant is obviously the cost-cutting part of the operation....

Must be hard if they bid lower than korea, thailand or china!

Really? I can't see why no-one would rather have an Aygo.

Because it's a French car, bolted together by the Czechs.

It's also a class down from either, too - guy next door has one - it looks like you need one for each foot.

HTH.

I don't think I've even seen a 500 on the road - are they even out yet? And as for the Panda - what class are they even in? The 100 could be in 'most spine smashing ride' in a painful ride class :-) I haven't been in the pov ones.

Hold on. I own a Fiat now.

Yay! Wops for the win! I have a JTD engine, who wants to touch me?

Loads of 500s around in more cosmopolitan places than the frozen North.

Of course the 100 has a stiff ride, that's the only way you can make something that tall handle without falling over.

Wheras the 500 is an italian car built by the poles?

See, you can't pick and choose.

You hate French cars, but you'll recommend a French car, built by the Commies and badged as a Toyota?

French car?

Engine: Toyota 1KR-FE. Proportions are more like a Yaris than anything french. I don't know who did the design but it's not got much frenchness.

Where've you seen loads? I don't think the Mini has to worry too much about been knocked off of the top trendy slot. Top Gear said it was becoming uncool - so for people who buy Minis, in the main, that's a huge plus point hehe :-)

"Who wants to be associated with loads of petrolhead car geeks? Ewww... I bet some have dirt under their nails, and take dirty oily things into their kitchens!"

Well, actually, I thought about what I said. I have only been outside four times in 3 months, and that includes going to and from the Hospice as two trips, and getting in and out of the Doblo, as two trips. So, that's probably why my road memories don't include many 500s :-) I asked a couple of mates though and it seems they are becoming reasonably common round here too heh, apparently there's a 'sporty one' with about 95% of the exterior stickers/tweaks available from the options list that parks next to my mate in their car park! No one seemed to have seen a Punto Abarth yet though, and having shown them a picture, no one was bothered hehe.

But anyway, it's not like anyone here is the kinda 'guy' to be a 500 owner, except maybe me heh, and I'm out now! Although if I was buying in the baby (but still as big as the last generations normal sized small hatch) warm hatch place like that, I'd save some £k and get the Renault Sport Twingo. Has the proven way best chassis out of them for a hot (it was hot, it's now just warm) hatch as it's based heavily on the old 182 - which was the top of the pile. Shame they're only 144bhp, but again, warm hatch, and it's 9bhp more than the standard 500 Abarth. Also, it's a new Renault, you can probably get it, all cupped up for about £9k brand new on the RenaultSport forum's dealer section. One guy discounted 197 Cups from £14,995 to £12,300! When I mentioned this to my local dealer he was like, "How!?" hehe.

It's been watered down, if only a little; we knew about the new Ka in ~2003 and the diesel in ~2005, just not what diesel.

And still do!

It's been on the design boards for years, though. Ford will regret having to sign the cheque just as much as General Motors regret having to buy a piece of Fiat.

Where? Ford's tooling for the Ka was wearing out and it was cheaper to part-rescue the Fiat design team than build their own new rigs.

And lets not forget that Ford will redesign the suspension so that the Ka rides and handles well at the same time, rather than the majority of Fiat designs, where you get to pick which one of the two you'd like...

Not yet it doesn't.

Class leaders? How do you get to that conclusion?

What else is in the Panda's class? I can see how it would be the class leader for small car, all wheel drives. But there are many other small cars that fit the criteria and are a better ownership prospect.

The 500? What class is that in? Overpriced cars for overpaid people? It looks okay, from a sort of, new VW Beetle / new BMW MINI perspective, and it's cheaper than both, so that may make it the best.

As for the 1.3 diesel, it isn't the class leader in smaller capacity litre diesels *until* you get to the 1.3 capacity *and* are exceptionally tight too. I can think of more refined donks of 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6 litres in capacity. Meh most of these are just as economical too.

I have a love / hate relationship with the four cylinder JTD designs. They drive well, but I don't trust them enough to run one - precisely why I have a turbopetrol 9-3 Sports Saloon rather than a turbodiesel 9-3.

Where?!

As are all the manufacturers to one degree or another...

Are there any Polish left in Poland to work at such a plant?

"JackH" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Don't forget the Suzuki SX4/Fiat Sedici