Sign of the times...

Most of that is because the 500 is still relatively small... ;-)

And now Nissan and Renault. Renault styling, Renault reliability, Nissan image...

One day there were none on the roads, then overnight they became road-fleas. There's fecking millions of 'em...

It mimicks the original a lot better. My parents had a Fiat 500 for a few years when I was a kid.

Ehhh - in shape, maybe. But the engine is at and drives the wrong end...

According to your French: it seems mutual.

;-)

TDM

There is an article on the KA in the local rag this week... and over the next page is an ad for the new Corsa.

Same bonnet over wing design. Same side / rear profile, with the KA featuring a couple of slashes up the side

They look uncannily similar.

Not like it was - they're not dominating the markets like they used to in the UK at least.

I thought they'd offloaded it again recently, or they'd at least broken up the partnership that was producing stuff like the platform on which the Punto / Corsa are based.

I'd rather I could, if it's all the same to you. ;-)

They have.

Quite a profitable little venture for Fiat - GM had to buy themselves out or buy Fiat.

GM took the cheaper option, which gave Fiat a nice big injection of cash.

Don't know if that was planned or not - I suspect that Fiat / the Wop government knew that GM wouldn't and couldn't pay up to buy the whole company, so forced their hand.

I can't see the Wop government selling their industry to the highest bidder, as ours did.

All I know is that the one a friend has racked up 110k on, is really starting to show its class in terms of being built down to a price.

The 1.3 CDTI Corsa (last shape) we occasionally used at the last place I worked at had issues - used to cut out if you nailed it, and wasn't that quick really.

Can't comment on the economy, as I used it as little as possible. ;-)

To be fair, many cars, my Passat included, would start to feel a bit ropey after covering that kind of mileage in such a short space of time.

That's seriously hammering a car designed to be used to ferry kids to school / do the supermarket run.

That'll be the GM install, Fiat don't appear to have had any issues with that engine.

But it does appear that Fiat give the engines to GM to reliability test them for them.

My KA, with 120k IIRC (probably more actually), felt absolutely spot on and coped admirably with a 140 mile a day commute.

No squeaky trim either.

*shrug*

I just hope the new KA has more in common with the old one in terms of longevity, than this Panda appears to have.

I've found that doing the miles quickly is what has the biggest adverse effect on a car.

I don't buy into all this 'fleet car, used on the motorway' bollocks - they get hammered, all day, every day, for the first 3 years of their lives, with minimal maintenance and an owner who doesn't give a f*ck about them.

Would be interesting to compare the Panda with one that's racking up the miles at a more leisurely rate.

But still, they probably have cut corners with the Panda, they'd have to, to sell a car that kind of size for that kind of money. They're quite a bit more roomy and practical than the similarly priced Ka / C1 / Aygo / 107.

Not in the front they're not - I fit perfectly and with room to spare in a phase one KA... the Panda as you know, I took back when I bought one, as I was wedged right up against the A pillar.

Maybe things get a bit clearer when it's known that the factory who makes the engines is owned for 50% by GM.

Fiat (as well as others) is a buying customer at VM Motori.

Tom De Moor

The Clio can be had with a 2.0 16v, 138bhp engine that is all new and Nissan developed apparently. Someone on Cliosport who'd bought a brand new one, a Clio Dynamique S 138 to give it it's full name, was telling me why this engine was so awesome, with it's good economy and low emissions. But like, so what? It's only got that because for a 2.0 16v petrol engine its really down on power (even within the same model range!) as far as I can see. He'd traded down from a Megane R26 - the running costs were a problem...

I was about to say he may as well have bought a diesel, but if he wanted a Clio he couldn't do that really, as they haven't updated the diesel engines from the old range (dci86 and dci106 versions of the 1.5dci being the two diesel options available) so there isn't a decent equivalent really, as both of those must feel a bit limp in an 'I ate all the pies' Clio3.

Very strange choice, especially to buy new IMHO, as the residuals of Renaults are bad enough without buying the oddball versions of the models. It's quite a high insurance group still, and quite thirsty compared with the others, and quite expensive whilst trying to be quite sporty - so I'd imagine most people would rather go the whole way and get a 197... Mind you, I can't see why anyone would buy a Renault that wasn't a RenaultSport. The RenaultSports, certainly the Meg R26, are all arguably top of their class - so you take the chance on owning a Renault for the great drive. But I just can't see a single reason why anyone would buy any of the cooking models - why take the risk and not just buy something Jap (but not Nissan) if you're not a driving enthusiasty / petrolheady type. And if you are, don't get a Clio 138, save about £3k and get a Twingo RenaultSport - more mpg, more fun, less weight, less engine (but only 5 less bhp), less to buy, less to insure :-) Best seats in the class too apparently.

ISTR that Fiat only buy VM lumps for commercial vehicles - they certainly don't fit any to their car range.

The JTD is in-house designed and manufactured.

Erm... they fit that lump in the Laguna... which is quite a bit bigger.

So I doubt its that bad.