Competition coming?

Some new competition indeed. I still think that will be a sweet car. I personally like the looks of the Grand Prix, Grand Am GT's etc, but they are ALL front wheel driveV6 cars which probably has detoured a lot of buyers looking for a fast V8/rear wheel drive performance. I know I would have bought one. The GTO should change that. I still miss driving my father's 76 Grand Prix.

"The Pontiac GTO sprang to life as a 1964 model. It has been called the most famous muscle car in high-performance automobile history."

Who "called" it that? Granted they were nice cars but come on "most famous muscle car"? I can think of a lot of cars that come in higher on the old famous meter.

Simon Juncal opined in news: snipped-for-privacy@erols.com:

They have a point... name one that more readily popped to mind as "Muscle Car" ....the GTO had the Brand identification. There was too much dilution in the rest of the marques.

But I think they conveniently forgot about the Charger.

And the Challenger...

I would kind of agree, especially as it was the first one realy. Big engined grocery getter...

I would not spit at an early GTO...they are quite rare these days.

2 Cents please...

Serge

I'm not one of them, but some would classify the Challenger as a pony car. I say it's a musclecar with pony car styling....

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

Charger, Chevelle, hell even the Cuda IMO comes to mind sooner than the GTO. In fact I'd bet the first car that most people think of when you say muscle car would be the Mustang, I know we call it a Pony Car, but if we're talking average joe on the street here (and to be "famous" we have to, unless it's "famous among gear heads") then I don't see the GTO until well into the list. The same idea applies to the Camaro. Not a muscle car by the gear head definition, but if you ask 100 people at random what they think of when they hear muscle car, I'd bet the two Pony cars would top the list. Followed closely by the Charger.

Tempest. But

When I think muscle car, for whats its worth i first think of a Hemi Cuda , and then a 69 chevelle

3 cents please ( inflation dont ya know!)

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote

The intermediate-size '64 Tempest with the 325 hp 389-4v GTO option package gets the cred as the first muscle car. A pony car is a short deck, long hood, two door body mounted on compact car running gear. The Challenger is a wobbler in that it (and the '70 and up Barracuda), from the firewall forward, was substantially identical to the intermediate Belvedere-Coronet B-body cars. Mopar used this configuration to make the 426 hemi to fit.*

Furthermore, the '62 375 hp 413 ci Plymouth Fury predated the first GTO by two years. Although the Fury was Plymouth's full-size car (with the intermediate Valiant below it), the '62 Fury was 202 inches long on a 116 inch wheelbase, while the '64 GTO was 203 inches long on a 115 inch wheelbase. So in fact the Fury was the first "intermediate" sized car with a big block engine, and the GTO's claim to be the first ANYTHING is bogus. (Even its name -- "Grand Touring Omologato" is bogus.)

Yrs, 180 TS 28

• Disclaimer: I only read this somewhere about the B-body-Challenger connection. Whether parts actually interchange between a Belvedere and a Challenger is unknown to me. Mopar experts are invited to shoot me down if need be.

Jeff opined in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

...rest of good opinion deleted...

The statement was:

"the most famous muscle car in high-performance automobile history." Whether it existed in 64 has nothing to do with it.

What car FIRST springs to MOST minds (who know what a muscle car is)... for me it's Charger and I never had one.. I was Chebby back then.

I am 50 (16 in 1969). To me, THE muscle car of the late 60's / early 70s was the SS-396 Chevelle. Rich kids who were pretending to have fast cars bought GTOs. By the time I really had an interest in cars, GTOs were over priced and slow (at leat compared to the Chevies). I suppose the very early GTOs (64/65) were good performers but by '67 they were just also rans. People who couldn't stomach Chevies (like me), bought various Ford products that tried to compete with the SS-396. The only one in my home town that I remember coming close was an early '70s Torino with the

429 SCJ. Chrysler products were non-competitive. I can't remember wanting any Chrysler product or being envious of anyone that owned one (well except for a Hemi Cuda the local dealer had for a while).

Ed

Me: 49 (15 in 1969), and this is how I remember it too. 396/325's were dogs, but 396/375's were rad. 427 Vettes with a good gear would run too. GTO's, 4-4-2's, 383 Road Runners and 340 Dusters were the cars prosperous dads bought for their sons. But these were all dogs. A buddy's Ram Air IV '70 Trans Am Firebird could not touch my '66 Vette with its clanking Muncie shifter and smoking, very tired 396/325 from a '67 Chevelle.

Unfortunately there were no hot Fords on my home turf either, c.

1970-74.

Yrs, 180 TS 28

Most Famous???? Alright, I'll still have to go with the GTO as being the most famous just because of the history behind the evolution of the musclecar. "Most Powerful"? NOT even close!!! Fastest ?? Not a chance. Best Looking? An argument could be made for the earlier models. But most famous? Yes.. How could you possibly choose the "most famous" musclecar from the lot? Why would you choose the Charger as most famous? I can tell you that back in 77' I blew away a few 440 Chargers with my then 66' tri-power GTO. Let's face it, ask anyone what the "most famous" musclecar is and they'll say whichever car is their personal fav. Here's a good test. Girls aren't as consumed with musclecars as us guys are so Let's ask the opposite sex (who is familiar with muscle cars) which one comes to mind as the most famous or even just to name a musclecar and see what the answer is. I'd be curious as to what the results would be myself but something tells me the answer is NOT going to be a "1969 427 Yenko Camaro" ;-) I would almost bet the majority of the answers come back GTO.

Jeff Foglietta

snipped-for-privacy@ergogroup.com (Jeff) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

Not to get into the "what's a musclecar/ponycar" thing, but the either the Mustang or the Corvette has got to be the most famous high- performance American car. The GTO doesn't come close as far as general name recognition.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Maybe the song?

Ed

Well Joe, you HAVE to get into the "what's a musclecar/ponycar" thing because Neither the Mustang or my personal fav, the Vette are considered musclecars! Are they the most popular models in history? hell yes but they don't apply to this thread. You say that not only is the GTO not the most famous musclecar, but you say it doesn't even come close, in name recognition of all things!!!... ????????? The car that has outsold all other musclecars by thousands from 1964-1972???? Reality check, There IS no more recognizable musclecar name out there than the Pontiac GTO!!! OK, So what is it Joe. What's the most famous musclecar? Not the fastest but the most famous.... Chevelle SS, Torino, GS, Charger, GTX, 442, Dart, Duster? Go ahead, pick one.... None of the names you'll find are more recognizable than the GTO or in most cases AS recognizable as the GTO. Eveyone has their own opinion on this but reality is reality. You may not like the GTO but you have to accept it's place in automobile history. Sorry but thats just the way it is .....

Jeff Foglietta

I'm not arguing for or against anything! But since you where talking of songs... Check out this Mustang/Cobra song list!

Klikk the "Mustang related Music, Audio & Video" to the left...

Kool..? :o)