new 5.8 in a '70 Sportsroof

I've been seriously toying with this idea as my next project, but after some thought and talking to various engine builders, the newer 5.8 (up to '01) is
kind of a dog for a vehicle for anything OTHER than a truck or van. Anybody have a link which compares the HP/torque curves of the stock versions of the 5.0L HO and the 5.8L? I was thinking of grabbing a salvage motor from a F or E series vehicle and swapping on the Explorer upper intake manifold as the truck manifold is WAY too tall even for a cowl hood..Obvious swap to Mass air instead of speed density. I want a lot of torque, but it sounds like that's ALL these motors have and not much else really useful for what would be a daily driver. That is unless I can find a complete n/a lightning motor (and their just SO easy to find ) *sarcasm off*).
What block was Saleen using for the S351's? Was he using the same block as what was going in the trucks and vans but changing the internals and top end?
Can you build a lightning motor from the 5.8 block out of a stock truck/van?
After talking with Ron Morris. In his opinion, it sounds like the 5.0 used in the Explorers until just a few short years ago would be the best heart for this car. Nice and torquey because of the heavier original vehicle used, but not ALL torque for towing or toting heavy loads. Just get the wiring harness for the swap with the mustang ECU and I'm done (sorta).
Suggestions? Is the newer, taller deck 351W/5.8L really not that great a motor? Please don't suggest the newer modular motors. I don't want to work that hard and jack around with the shocktowers.
I'd also want to run an automatic, not a manual tranny and I want OD. If I went with the 5.8, which OD auto tranny would I need to run? Will the standard AOD handle a fairly stock 5.8?
Scott W. '66 HCS
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Scott Williams wrote:

If you don't want to do much swapping around, just get a good 5.0/AOD combo and drop it in. The 5.8 would be a good motor, but you'll have to swap in a better cam, heads, and intake to make it perform reasonably well. In stock form it won't perform as well as a Mustang 5.0. But if you feel like swapping on a better top end, it would be a very powerfull motor. The truck AOD should handle it just fine.
--
.boB
97 H-D FXDWG - Turbocharged!!
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I agree with boB. Don't underestimate the 351s potential. Add a pair of TFS heads and a healthy flat tappet cam topped off with a good carburetor and see what "reasonably well" is. As for the AOD, don't use a factory unit without having it upgraded. Avoid pre 88 units. The AOD will work good with 3.50 or 3.70 gears.
C8oe
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The big plus of a Lightening motor is the GT40 heads and roller cam capable block. I personally wouldn't bother hunting one down. If you stumble across a 94 or newer block it should be able to handle a roller cam if that's what you want. I'd go for any old 351w and swap on a set of good aftermarket heads with a 60cc chamber. That will not only give you a good flowing head, but increase the compression around 1 point. Then cam to match your needs. I did a junkyard 351w for a Monarch once that worked out to just under 11:1 compression using early 70's heads with the 1.84/1.54 valves, 700 double pump holley and a Cam Dynamics 288 hydro flat tappet cam. I don't have any dyno numbers but it was a whole lot of fun. :)
MadDAWG
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capable
across
what
head,
needs.
11:1
The reason I'm wanting a newer motor is because I want EFI. The newer 5.8 intake won't fit on the older block because the deck height is different. That's why I'm looking at truck motors but swapping the upper intake manifold to the Explorer intake. I'm really just trying to figure out not whether it's doable, but really if it's worth all the trouble just to be different than all the 5.0 swaps.
Scott W. '66 HCS
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if
If your going to swap intakes anyway its really not going to matter what you start with. Most of the aftermarket 5.0 intakes use the 5.0 fuel rails. If you went with a truck 5.8 you might be able to swap out the upper half of the intake. There are a few intakes that use the truck lower pattern. I think the Holly intake is one along with the older Saleen/Vortech set up. There is also the Downs box upper as well. I'll probably get flamed for this, but I wouldn't run a factory styled EFI setup on a big cubic inch motor. I had a 347 and the intakes are just way to restrictive with the long runners. You can get a good EFI intake for larger engines, but an explore intake is just gonna kill any top end on something as large as a 351w.
If your just looking to swap in a basicly stock 351 I'd have to question iif its really worth doing. If you are going to do it with a bulit up 351w with good heads and induction system then it would, but you won't be using many stock parts. If your doing it strickly to be diffeerant I can understand that, but as for performance it doesn't sound like all that much improvment. If it was me I'd stay with a carb and spend the EFI money on a 393 stroker kit.
MadDAWG
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I agree with your comments. I think that through his research, Scott will find many things that are "doable", but far fewer that make sense.
Personally... I'd swap in a hot carb'd 302/347 stroker. But he can achieve good results, abeit fewer options, with a 351w. I've found the best mod for the 351w to be the addition of a retrofit roller cam. It changes the firing order to that of a 289/302, but can deliver some badly needed HP. A stroker kit will definitely enhance the power delivered.
I guess I'm from the school that teaches its better to be faster than everyone else on the street, than different from everyone else in the parking lot.

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achieve
for
firing
stroker
Ok you got my attention with that last part. AFAIK the roller cams run the 351 firing order. The 5.0 ho motors run the 351 firing order as well right from the factory. Are you saying to get a custom firing order or are there some rollers with the 302 pattern?
MadDAWG
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I'm curious too. The 289-302 retrofit cams have the non-HO firing order and will fit the 351 also. The 351 retro cams have the correct 351-HO firing order and will fit the old 302s. My question: In a pre HR 351 block, can you use a cam designed specifically for 85 up 5.0 HR applications along with the $419.00 retro lifters from Crane, or do you need the special small base circle cam that is designed to use OEM type HR lifters? The OEM guide bars will not nest above the bores in an early block without some serious machining.
C8oe
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351
the
specifically for

or
type
block
I'm not really sure but I'd bet you could do either. I don't think I'd go for the custom lifters myself.
MadDAWG
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Thanks for all the help guys. I'm dumping the 5.8 idea entirely. This car is just gonna be a daily driver and the things it would be necessary to do aren't worth it for a stock setup. Sounds like I'm going with an Explorer 5.0 roller motor and an AOD.
Scott W. '66 HCS '69-'70 Sportsroof (soon soon)

really
swaps.
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I'm gonna have a nice EFI 308 for sale in the spring. lol
MadDAWG
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We might be talking later then. heh. Would it come with the harness, 'puter, sensors, etc?
Scott W. '66 HCS

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All depends on what I decide to do with the car. I'm leaning towards a 351c 4v if I can come up with a good donor with paying an arm and a leg. A 460 has crossed my mind as well. I'm tired of windsor blocks. I have ben playing around with them since high school and want to try something else. If the tranny in my 95 hadn't taken a big shit this fall I'd probably be selling the car and buy something else, but now I can't get out of it enough to do that so I might as well go crazy.
MadDAWG
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