What Ford should do about the Vette

"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

I don't disagree with any of that except that I wonder what the reliability factor would be with 400+ hp.

That chassis can certainly handle 400hp. Look what Fox cars are capable of with proper chassis reinforcement.

Agreed, except that I question whether Ford is in a position to go down that road, financially speaking.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Reply to
Joe
Loading thread data ...

Rein wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

That's one opinion. Even with mild induction the LS will kick major booty.

It's one way to go, not _the_ way to go. GM and DC know that.

Nonsense. The GR1 is just another dream concept car.

In its price range. And it's a helluva bargain.

I'm looking, and all I see is another concept car.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Reply to
Joe

Rein wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

desirable

Nonsense. I'm talking about a decent advertising campaign. There is none for the GTO or SSR.

Not for '05.

Sure, it's heavy, but it now has the LS motor with a manual gearbox. It fits a real nice niche, but IMO GM isn't advertising it properly.

At best.

Even you're admitting it's got a major problem, eh?

And it's way behind what DC has. Underpowered FWD slushboxes are over and done with.

LOL! As you say, who cares?

What more to come? The GT is out and unavailable.

They're still ranked ahead of Ford.

Ford's no better. Ever hear of the Cobra fiasco? Intake manifolds cracking? And now we hear that almost a million vehicles are on recall notice for catching fire all on their own.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Reply to
Joe

On 28 Jan 2005 02:53:22 GMT, Joe wrote something wonderfully witty:

That would be my definition as well. The Z06 was supposed to be that at one time. No power anything, and even A/C was supposed to be either a delete or option. For a while it was being referred to as the Billy Bob or Bubba Vette. Of course GM decided to not go in that direction, but just imagine if they had and the price reflected to no-option aspect of the car. We might have ended up with a 30K street eater that no one could touch. Hell now even the base V6 Mustang coupe is now full-power everything. Can't anyone roll up a window any more?

Reply to
ZombyWoof

Not talking about the mustang GT. talking about ford building a car comparable to the vette.

Ford CAN do it. They WON'T do it.

And if what the sales droid tells me is correct, I'll won't be buying another new ford anyway. New mustang cobra at 55 grand without IRS. But sales droid probably wanted to get me to buy a GT today....

Reply to
Brent P

On 28 Jan 2005 12:55:10 GMT, Joe wrote something wonderfully witty:

Without a doubt it is a concept car. It simply cannot be brought into mass production in it's current form. The pictures over at

formatting link
living proof that the car it it's current configuration isn'tgoing to see the light of day. Is it drop-dead gorgeous with a giantset of balls? Hell ya, but don't look for it coming to s showroomnear you.

Reply to
ZombyWoof

If they would give it the same internals as the Cobra it would be pretty good. Those engines easily make 600-700 rwhp without ever removing the valve covers. In reality the 4.6L is a much better block than the old

302 production blocks.

I didn't mean that the chassis couldn't take the hp but that it would only provide so much from a handling perspective. I don't see how Ford could take a $25k chassis and use it to support an $80k+ automobile. I don't think they could market it to the discerning buyer for that type of car. Besides, how long would it take the after market to supply a kit to make a Mustang GT into the same car for half the money. :)

I doubt they will ever do it but I think it could succeed. There seems to be plenty of people willing to pay $75k+ for a vehicle nowadays.

Reply to
Michael Johnson, PE

formatting link
are living proof that the car it it's current configuration isn't> going to see the light of day. Is it drop-dead gorgeous with a giant> set of balls? Hell ya, but don't look for it coming to s showroom> near you.

I think they will build it because of the success of the GT. I've been told that the entire production run of the GT is spoken for already. Ford said they will limit production to 3,000 cars so they need a follow up and, IMO, the GR1 is it. They have the production line in place and changing it to another car wouldn't be that difficult. With the GT's routinely getting $100k over sticker I think it's too much profit for Ford to give up AND they keep a Flagship car in the lineup.

Reply to
Michael Johnson, PE

ZombyWoof wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Cooreection: CV doesnt have the power of a 300c or the suspension. If I had to pick between a CV and a 300c? the 300c would take it

Reply to
Nicodemus Telrenner

Rein wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Why? Becuse they had too much envisions and pissed and moaned whent hey didnt get it? I want one of those GTO's.

You like swine talk don't you? They put a real nice motor in the new model of the SSR. It will actually perform now.

There goes swine speak again. I drove one. They are VERY nice. YOu may say they are pig heavy, but you couldn't tell really. Made the Vic feel like dung.

'The aztek Prototype was nice. They really FUBARED the production model. I saw a custom Aztek online that i liked, had larger wheels so it looked less ungainly, and it was converted to RWD witha v8. That I would take.

Reply to
Nicodemus Telrenner

"Generic" wrote in news:41f85b9f$0$74588$ snipped-for-privacy@news.nntpservers.com:

Only the FIRST YEAR Focus. Of what i have seen from CR among other places (year long tests) is that the newer Foci held up quite well. Adn the fact that Ford has a factory aftermarket kit for a v8 RWD conversion for the Focus? It would be a huge killer.

Reply to
Nicodemus Telrenner

"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote in news:H9idnREc-sXe snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

But then it'd be a Cobra. ;)

I don't doubt it. I remember your posts about this months ago when you were talking about redoing your motor.

Agreed. The current car appears to be very well balanced, i.e., no single component is over (or under) engineered.

Exactly. It's being done now by outfits like Roush and Steeda.

I don't know if 'pay' is the right word - maybe 'borrow' might be better. ;)

At any rate, I don't think Ford is prepared to go down that road.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Reply to
Joe

The focus had a bad start but it went the other way. It's actually one of the best choices out there now.

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Reply to
Rein

All of that is true, but the it doesn't change what I said. The Focus still has terrible resale value and lousy buyer satisfaction ratings.

I actually chose one for a rental and, because of the excellent reviews, was terribly disappointed. The transmission growled like it was grinding and when I turned it in they said "Oh, that's just been fixed."

-John

Reply to
Generic

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:19:56 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE" wrote something wonderfully witty:

formatting link
> are living proof that the car it it's current configuration isn't>> going to see the light of day. Is it drop-dead gorgeous with a giant>> set of balls? Hell ya, but don't look for it coming to s showroom>> near you.

From that perspective then I'll make one clarification. It won't be a mass production model and I still doubt that you'll see one at a showroom near you. Or a GT for that matter.

Reply to
ZombyWoof

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:43:24 -0600, Nicodemus Telrenner wrote something wonderfully witty:

Sure without a doubt when price isn't an option. But what about two CV's or one 300c. Oh and the insurance to go with it.

Reply to
ZombyWoof

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:58:11 -0600, Nicodemus Telrenner wrote something wonderfully witty:

No shit they already have a full-blown factory aftermarket kit to convert a focus to V8 RWD? At what price & engine?

Reply to
ZombyWoof

I take those survey results with a grain of salt. One of the complaints that tanked the ratings for the hummer was :"It uses too much fuel" Come on, how stupid are people ? These kidn of things aren't complaints, they should be filed under the "stupid buyer-ignore" section. Tha satisfaction rating for the new foci (?) is actually good, for whatever that's worth.

yup, it's had many fixes, at least Ford fixes them. GM denies the piston slap issues.

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Reply to
Rein

Factory ? I thought it was aftermarket.

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Reply to
Rein

ZombyWoof wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

It comes down to which car i would enjoy more And the CV is no contest

::looks up prices::

Lets compare:

2005 Crown Victoria LX Sport

Please verify that the information below correctly represents the selections you have made. For your convenience the Total Invoice and Total MSRP prices are included. See bottom of the page for more pricing details. Have Questions About Your Vehicle Or Available Incentives? Have Questions About Your Vehicle Or Available Incentives? (888) 859-6078 Your Vehicle MSRP: Total Invoice: Base Price: $30,420.00 $28,063.00 Your Selected Options: Exterior Color & Interior Trim: o Black Clearcoat Black Clearcoat o Dark Charcoal Dark Charcoal Options: o 6-Disc In-Dash CD Changer $650.00 $579.00 o Driver and Passenger Side Impact Air Bags $300.00 $267.00 o All-Speed Traction Control $175.00 $156.00 o Heated Sideview Mirrors $35.00 $31.00 o Laminated Side Glass $295.00 $263.00 o Power Moonroof $1,025.00 $913.00 o Power Adjustable Pedals $120.00 $107.00 o Trunk Storage Unit $190.00 $169.00 What Comes Standard The following features come standard on your vehicle but may have been upgraded by options you have selected above. Exterior: - 17" ALLOY 5-SPOKE WHEELS - P235/55R17 BSW TIRES - SOLAR TINTED GLASS - DUAL POWER MIRRORS - INTERVAL WIPERS Interior: - 5-PASS LEATHER SEATING - 8-WAY POWER FRONT SEATING - AM/FM STEREO W/ DUAL MEDIA - ELECT AUTO TEMP CONTROL - MAP POCKETS- DRIVER & PASS - REAR SEAT HEATING DUCTS - 2-WAY HEADRESTS - CARPETED FLOOR MATS - SPEED CONTROL/ TILT WHEEL - AUTO-DIM REARVIEW MIRROR - VALET KEY Functional: - HANDLING PACKAGE - POWER STEERING/BRAKES - POWER WINDOWS/LOCKS - SINGLE-STROKE PARK BRAKE - AUTO HEADLAMPS W/ VAR DEL Safety & Security: - PERSONAL SAFETY SYSTEM - SECURILOCK/PASS ANTITHEFT - CHILD SEAT TETHERS - CHILDPROOF REAR DOOR LOCKS - TRUNK ENTRAPMENT RELEASE - SIDE IMPACT DOOR BEAMS - 4-WHEEL DISC BRAKES W/ABS - PRETENSIONING FRT SEATBLTS Warranty: - 3 YR/36,000 MILES - 24 HR ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE Destination Charge: - Destination and Delivery $725.00 $725.00 Pricing Totals: $33,935.00 $31,273.00

VS

Model

- 2005 CHRYSLER 300 C T Pkg. $33,095.00 modify Colors

- Primary: Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl Coat Included

- Interior: Dark Slate Gray/Medium Slate Gray Included modify Power

- 5.7L HEMI® V8 Engine w/Multi-Displacement System Included

- 2.82 Axle Ratio Included

- 5-Speed Automatic Transmission Included modify Options

- Luxury Leather-Trimmed Low-Back Bucket Seats Included

- P225/60R18 BSW Touring Tires Included

- 18" x 7.5" Aluminum Chrome Clad Wheels Included

- 6 Boston Acoustics Speakers Included

- AM/FM Stereo with CD Player Included

- SIRIUS Satellite Digital Radio $195.00

- UConnect Hands-Free Communication $275.00

- Air Conditioning with Dual Zone Auto Temp Control Included

- Cold Weather Group $40.00

- Power Moonroof $950.00

- Smoker's Group $30.00

- Genuine California Walnut Wood Trim $495.00

- High-Intensity Discharge Headlamps $695.00

- Power Adjustable Pedals with Memory $175.00

- Protection Group II $840.00

- Electronic Stability Program Included modify Accessories

- Protection Package $569.00

- Touring Package $406.00

Base Price $33,095 T Pkg. $0 Options $3,695 Accessories $975 Destination $625 MSRP $38,390 * Net MSRP $38,390 * Est. Finance Payment $667

So in summary:

5K more, not "twice as much"

And you get this engine VS this engine

Crown Vic:

4.6L 239 hp V8

300C:

5.7L 340 hp V8

0 - 60 Time (seconds) 1/4 Mile Time (seconds) 1/4 Mile Speed (mph) Braking 60 - 0 mph (ft.) Chrysler 300C - V8 5.7L (340 hp) 5A + ABS 6.06 14.52 100.80 130

And in this quick search ic ouldnt find the equivelent for the Crown Vic, but i am very sure it is less

On top of that, i have seen both Interiors, and the Chryslers is much better. The suspension is superior, deriving from Mercedes luxury cars.

Its good to have Brand Loyalty, but don't be blind.

Reply to
Nicodemus Telrenner

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.