96 Maxima-Stubborn 0302 EGR code wont go away

A 96 Maxima recently came into my care. The Check Engine Light was on when I got it. Codes (0304 Knock Sensor) and (0302 EGR Hi/Low Flow) were stored in the ECU. The car had 130,000 miles on it. No "blow-by" from crank case, no smoking and not consuming oil. It had an intermittent "pulse" or misfire when in drive and stopped. Idle in park was smooth, unaffected. Light throttle produced power surges and until you stomped on the gas it was difficult to get it to any speed. When trying to accelerate from 30 to 60, power was non-existent until you pushed the throttle so hard the transmission would kick-down into 1st or 2nd and nearly redline the motor. Attacking the knock sensor first, I checked the resistance. It was completely open, no resistance at all. I put a new knock sensor ($120.00) in. I checked the EGR valve by sucking on the hose and felt the diaphragm raise and hold without leaking. I assumed it was functioning, assembled the parts and reset the ECU. The symptoms remained unchanged. The (0304 Knock Sensor) code never returned. The (0302 EGR Hi/Low Flow) code did return. So I put a new EGR valve in. After removing the old one, I inspected it closely and saw no reason for it to malfunction, but I replaced it anyway. When I was installing the new EGR valve, I noticed the supply pipe from the rear exhaust had some exhaust debris in it. I removed a small piece of debris and assembled the parts not giving it much thought and reset the ECU. This also had no effect on my issues, the symptoms still remained. I decided to check fuel pressure and compression. Both tests were perfect with little to no deviation from specs. Attacking ignition components, I started with spark plugs. When I pulled the old ones out they looked fine, but they were the cheapest plug you can buy- $1.99 Champions I think. 6 new Nippon Denso's ($7.99 a piece) went in. I noticed the rear bank coil packs had burn marks on one side of them. At the time I did not know for sure they were burns because they are so close to the intake I thought they could have been scuffs from rubbing and vibration. It did not appear that the front bank coil packs suffered this problem. Using my Fluke I tested the resistance of all 6 coil packs across all terminals. All 6 coil packs seemed to be really close to each other with no huge deviations. The test was inconclusive, so I re-assembled the parts. The new spark plugs had a small effect, the "pulses" or misfires were fewer, but still present. I considered the rear bank coil packs with burns on the sides as my prime suspect. With the engine running, in drive, park brake set and hood open, I got out and looked at the coil packs in complete darkness (Dont try this at home!) and saw the unmistakable blue colored arcing to the intake manifold, which wraps tightly around these high voltage devices. This would explain the burn marks. New coil packs went in the rear bank. 3 ignition coils @ $70.00 each...ouch. Again, I reset the ECU. The surges during acceleration dissapeared, and taking off did not require heavy throttle and harsh kickdown revs to make it move. But the "pulse" or misfire at idle was still there. Half of my problems had dissapeared. The (0302 EGR Hi/Low Flow) code came back shortly after. With nothing left but intake seals as suspect, I decided to put new upper and lower intake manifold gaskets in. When I took the EGR piping off I discovered a lot more garbage was clogging the line than the little piece I pulled out previously. The new EGR valve had some collected in it as well. I found the plenum was severley clogged with carbon and deposits where the EGR pipe dumps it in at the rear of the intake. Both EGR pipes, upper and lower manifolds and throttle body were thoroughly cleared of build-up and cleaned. New gaskets for the intake upper and lower, Throttle body, EGR were installed. After re-assembling the intake system, I again cleared the ECU. Bingo!!! The "pulse" or misfire was gone, and never returned. The throttle response and smoothness were dramatically improved. All of my problems were resolved and the car is a pleasure to drive.

After enjoying a Check Engine Light-Free Maxima for a few days, the damned thing lit up AGAIN...........(0302 EGR Hi/Low Flow) code. I really doubt there is any problem with the EGR system. The engine is running fine. Smooth and responsive throttle and with no misfires.

The only thing I can think at this point is a bad 02 sensor. Looks like "njmodi" is suggesting the TPS of the MAF may be bad also.

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Please Help!!! -Adam

Reply to
adupyours
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Check the O2 sensor with self diag and/or dmm. Should be Fluctuating 1V to 0V.

ECU drives EGR solenoid, Check the voltage level at the valve... simulate tst valve functionality. If suspect, tst swap wiring/hoses with pwr solenoid.

Brittled vacuum hoses?

My guess on this intermittent problem is oxidation, low voltage at ECU etc... groundings, connectors needs tune up. Start from charge voltage checks, at batt, at ECU. Clic p14, see link below.

The symptoms dont directly point to TPS/MAF...

Btw. 'No danger' in car electronics: you may die only if u swallow the batt. (too big box). Possibility to cause Fire and/or short damage to ECU are real...

Reply to
Wiikinki

EGR temp sensor got damaged. The blockage you describe is a -very- comon problem with these cars.

Reply to
Steve T

I noticed the negative terminal on my battery was covered in battery acid, so I put in a new battery and new ground cable, covering the fresh connections with protective spray. I have also cleaned many, if not all, connections including the PCM or ECU connectors, next to the gas pedal. I am sure now that I am not dealing with connectivity issues. Even after doing this

The EGR Temp sensor... Is the little sensor on the flange going to the intake, with 2 22-24awg wires going to it? I was very careful not to damage these little wires, but anything is possible. How do I check it?

Thank You! -Adam Orlando, FL

Reply to
adupyours

Not sure of the number of wires but it's the sensor in the EGR pipe. I thought it was a 1 wire sensor..

FSM will tell you how to test, I don't have one handy.

Reply to
Steve T

My Maxima is a 4th gen. The EGR Temp sensor does have two little black wires- I backprobed it and monitored the voltage with my DMM. Supposed to read about 4 volts when cold, and drop to 0.8 volts when EGR flow is present, above 212*. I drove around for about 45 minutes, monitoring the voltage. It started out cold at 3.994 vdc and slowly dropped nice and smoothly. It dropped to about 1.8 - 2.0 volts after 40 minutes of driving in mixed conditions. Never did it dip near 0.8 volts. So, I parked the car, got out and revved the engine and pushed the EGR valve open with my finger. Almost immediatley, the DMM read 0.8 volts. This would explain why I keep getting an 0302 EGR Hi/Low Flow code, the EGR valve is not opening! Okay, maybee somebody is laughing at me right now, because it turns out that the problem is the EGR Control Solenoid. It leaks vaccum right through it, even when actuating it with battery voltage. I checked the EGR Backpressure Transducer Valve for proper functionality, and it checks good. Used handheld vaccum pump with guage to check all of my vaccum lines, vaccum solenoids, and EGR system. This is the only piece that is not functioning. I appreciate the help, It probably would have taken me longer if I had not monitored the EGR Temp Sensor. Checked with Nissan, part costs about $60. Hopefully after installing It should be a long time before I have another 0302 Code!!! Thank You!!! -Adam

Reply to
adupyours

..revved the engine and pushed the EGR valve open with my finger. Almost immediatley, the DMM read 0.8 volts. This would explain why I keep getting an 0302 EGR Hi/Low Flow code, the EGR valve is not opening! Okay, maybee somebody is laughing at me right now, because it turns out that the problem is the EGR Control Solenoid... Somebody???

I am laughing cause I told you to check it, tst swap wiring/hoses with pwr solenoid... Verify my txt above. Bingo.

"Almost immediatley..." EGR temp sensor measures coolant temp at one point. Affecting coolant flow (like revving) will affect coolant temp at this point, and its measurement reading.

However, exhaust circulation -or- its ctrl doesnt affect coolant or its measurement. Its totally different entity. Thus pushing EGR valve controlling gasflow, cannot affect EGR coolant temp sensor reading.

Reply to
Wiikinki

Wiikinki,

I think you are mixing up the ECTS (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor) with the EGR Temp/Flow sensor. The EGR temp/flow sensor does not come into contact with any coolant - and doesn't measure coolant temperatures. The EGR temp sensor is located in the EGR guide tube that runs from the EGR valve up to the upper intake manifold. It detects both flow as well as the temperature of the recirculated gas. The ECTS is what measures coolant temp and feeds that info to the ECU.

Cheers, Nirav

Reply to
njmodi

Much Thanks to "Wiikinki" and "Nirav".

"Wiikinki",You were right about telling me to check by swapping with the power solenoid, but I had no clue that you were refering to the other two valves located near my faulty one. After checking all 3 solenoids I understood their specific function/flow and how swapping them would have identified my problem. I do not work on cars every day, my specialty is electric forklifts, and their parts look a little different from car parts. But that is irrelevant. I simply did not understand what you were saying about swapping the valves, so it is an error on my part. But you were right, and I will admit it! And for that I thank you. Unfortunately, I'm just not as sharp as some!

"Nirav", thank you for your input. You are correct about the temp sensors. The EGR Temp sensor never comes into contact with coolant, although coolant does flow near it where the EGR pipe meets the intake. The EGR pipe going to the intake has a flange/casting where it meets the intake, and the EGR temp sensor is mounted in the side of this flange/casting, drivers side. Similar to an 02 sensor case/casting style, it is about 1/8" in diameter, about 1" long and has two little

24 or 26 guage black wires going to it.

When I was revving the engine, the voltage did not fluctuate... only after opening the EGR valve with my finger did it drop. After releasing the EGR valve the meter returned to 1.7 - 1.8 volts. This verified why the code kept coming back, and why the voltage never dropped to where it is supposed to.

So I have just bought a solenoid from the Nissan dealer, and going to install it. Hopefully I am remedied of that *damned* 0302 EGR code!

Reply to
adupyours

Adam - most likle the solenoid will take care of your problem. You have taken the time to correctly identify the root cause rather than take the "throw parts at the car" approach. Don't feel bad about cleaning the EGR guide tube - that is most often the cause of the 0302 code. The only other cause I have ever seen is the solenoid (that you are replacing). Unfortunatley the 0302 code can be caused by so many EGR components, you have to troubleshoot each component seperately to isolate the root cause.

I had the code not too long ago (a year or so). Cleaning out the guide tube and plenum port cured it for me.

Cheers, Nirav

96 Max GLE, 130k
Reply to
njmodi

Well, I just took it for a test drive after installing the new EGR Control Solenoid. I monitored the voltage at the EGR Temp Sensor during this test. ECU has been reset of course. The voltage now drops to 0.1 volts for brief periods and varies from 0.1 to 1.2 volts while driving, mixed conditions. Steady around 0.47 volts at 40 MPH and about 0.35 volts at 50 MPH. Voltage slowly returns to 2.0 to 2.2 volts after about

90 seconds of idle and drops steadily when accelerating. Longer accelleration times cause larger voltage drops and short accelleration times produce smaller voltage drops, proportionatly. Once a steady speed is maintained, fluctuation is less than +/- 0.04 volts. It appears to me that the system is functioning perfectly now. I also noticed the "Spark Knock" the car always had has all but vanished. I knew it could be potentially harmful to the motor, but I always adjusted my accelleration to compensate. Not any more.

I sure hope it stays this way! It has kicked my butt for a while now.

Again, many thanks to everybody who responded!!!

-Adam

Reply to
adupyours

No thank you for posting your results!

Reply to
Steve T

It's reading the temp of the EGR flow, not the coolant, DUH!

Reply to
Steve T

EGRC exhaust recirc systems havent changed: there exists no such substance as "EGR" or "EGR flow".

For greenpee reasons, EGRC recirculates exhaust gases to intake. ECU controlled recirc is based on EGRC Coolant Temp sensor, rpm, engine load... Nissan doesnt measure exhaust temp, never, none on EGRC... The actual exhaust flow valve is controlled with pneumatic valve from ECU output signal.

Both coolant temp sensors seen in VGE below; Engine & EGRC.

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Edit: Please read more EGRC -info from 1996 Nissan Field Service Manual, page EC-298. There this coolant EGR Temp sensor is tested via setting it in a boiling water kettle. For this, flollow link below, check 'Favorite Links'.

Reply to
Wiikinki

Yeah, I did kinda throw parts at it... The only thing that it really did not need was the EGR valve... could have saved about $120.00 on that one. The coil packs were arcing to the intake, but I noticed the new ones are doing the same thing, could have saved $180.00 there...The spark plugs certainly were superior to the ones taken out... The knock sensor was needed... Connections benefited from a "tune-up" cleaning and re-seating...Battery was starting to get weak, but could have made it another year. The negative terminal was cleaned six months ago because it had acid growing all over the neg. terminal, but it had started to grow over again faster than I thought. So the $60.00 battery can be justified, along with a new ground cable as a preventive measure (you should see how much battery acid a 3,800 LB forklift battery leaks out underneath them - enough to fill buckets!!! Nasty, Nasty, Nasty stuff, I hate it! PS: If you did not already know, you can effectively neutralize sulfuric acid / battery acid with baking soda and little water. Foams up into a nasty but neutralized disposable brown/black gunk. Dont spill any in the cells unless you want to buy a new battery.) The EGR tube and intake cleaning were also needed, as they were completely clogged. I feel good about all of it though. At 138,000 miles, it gives me some peace of mind. And I finally threw the right part at it!!!

I have been typing a lot of text in hopes that the next dummy like me will figure out their problem. I work full time as a technician, and I often find myself on the phone helping other techs troubleshoot the unique machines my employer imports from Germany. Extracting technical information for anything, especially electronics can be like pulling teeth out of a brick wall sometimes. Naturally the guys working for them want to maintain job security and support their families. Cant argue with that. But this thing is ten (10) years old! The guy working at the dealership should understand. Besides, he does not want to work on old greasy cars anyways. Where I work we are encouraged to share technical knowledge. I tell them what is supposed to be, and what I have seen hands on. The more the tech knows, the better diagnosis he can make and not waste my time. And thats where I stand on "Freedom of Information", but enough with this moral stuff....

Does anybody have some suggestions on what I can use to help isolate the rear coil packs from the intake? Maybee something I can wedge between the coil and intake to keep it from arcing? Does this happen a lot? Is it harmful to the coil packs?

-Adam

Reply to
adupyours

Theres 'nothin' wrong in throwing parts on equipment one is not familiar, its still 100x cheaper than throwin the problem to stealership. My guess is that after throwing in 1000$ you'd be still be there, still have the very same problem...

Best 'joke' I heard from a local cosworth-shop: shop has been 'repairing' it for a year, 10.000$ bills, not (!?) yet ready...

Batterly leak: Sandpaper clean poles & surrounding plastic, seal around with silicone. Grease poles with contact grease. Leaks will be bad memories... Overcharging causes boiling, acid spill

"dealership should understand": Stealer$hips do understand

- bill$, no shame, quick profit. Information is money. Arrange schemes to lure in more. Charge for plugs not changed, go buy 'em cheap at e-bay...

Clean plugs & coilpacks, check plug gaps. In hi-voltage leak isolation, 'anything goes': I'd test self vulganizing rubbertape, maybe wrap around teflon sheet. Isolating lacquer/paint on the alu intake? I guess theres not much room. Harmful: their job is to produce the spark. Sparks jump always to groung via easiest route. When it jumps 'out', long periods will 'carbonize' this wrong route. It may be possible to clean/scrape that off. After clean, Hi voltage isolation lacquer might help ...it does in distr caps.

Reply to
Wiikinki

Wiikinki,

The EGR temp sensor on 95-99 Nissan Maximas (and probably on 2000+ model years) detects exhaust gas flow and temperature. It never comes into contact with coolant, although as Adam mentioned, there is a coolant bypass through the plenum that runs within a few inches of the EGR temp sensor, but never comes into contact with it.

The ECU may use the coolant temp sensor (ECTS) readings as part of it's algorithm in controlling the EGR valve, but that is in addition to the readings from the EGR temp/flow sensor.

See here:

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Also look at EC-256 in the Nissan Maxima FSM and the diagnosis for DTC P1401 for more info.

Cheers, Nirav

Reply to
njmodi

Wiikini:

I do not have this specific "Field Manual", but a cheap Haynes manual and my own eyes have come to the conclusion you are talking about a different engine, maybee previous 3rd gen engine. I looked at the single cam engines in my '93-'01 Haynes Manual, but could not see a good picture of the coolant ports, but there were two very different motors. The biggest visual cue identifying them is the intake. One has two ports, coming from front of the car around to both sides of the engine. My upper intake or plenum is 1 solid casting, has 6 long ports reaching from the rear of the motor over the valve cover and bolting into the lower intake. My suggestion to you is go pop a hood on a 96 Maxima (DOHC, 3.0 V6 3000) and take a look for yourself.

In the picture you posted,

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this could very well be where it is located on your car. However, the coolant distribition ports look nothing like my 96 Maxima. There is no "Y" for two large hoses, and no two sensors mount opposite each other like pictured.

The picture Nirav posted:

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Is a clear example of the EGR Temp sensor, which measures EGR flow by warming the sensor when flow is present. When flow is present, the sensor gets hot, reducing voltage and increasing resistance. As it cools or flow stops, the opposite applies. Resistance can range from

10 MEG Ohms to less than 1K Ohms. Voltage supplied to the sensor is 12V, but backprobing voltage with engine running ranges anywhere from < 4.000 to < 0.1 volts. Obviously, only voltage can be read while the engine is running. And, it NEVER comes into contact with coolant.

Regards, -Adam

Reply to
adupyours

I did thank you, I have to correct my input. Seems to be 'both' ways (exhaust temp non existant in VGE):

- Good pic thks

- I dont know where you get the page EC-256. In 1996 FSM that page tells about A/T. Maybe another year model manual...?

- 1996 Manual, FSM page EC-298 Describes Coolant EGRC temp sensor (DTC0305); this is direct input for EGRC circuit ctrl.

- 1996 Manual, FSM page EC-295 Describes EGRC exhaust gas passageway temp sensor (DTCP1401). There FSM says this among other things: This sensor is NOT directly USED to control the engine system. It is used only for the onboard diagnostics.

Reply to
Wiikinki

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