911 vs M3 - for an everyday car

Hello everyone,

I want a sporty/reliable car for my everyday car which includes city/highway driving, from 15-20k a year.

I'm looking at a 2003 M3 vs a 2001 911 (looking to spend around 50-60K USD)

From a reliability/maintenance perspecitive, which car is better? What can I expect for yearly maintenance costs in USD?

I hope this spurs some good points!

You can also send me email to jayimba at yahoo dot com

Jay

Reply to
Jay
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From what I have read, the M3 would be more suitable. I understand Porsche maintenance can be very high. My '98 M3 4 door has been quite reliable actually, and very much at home as a day to day driver. - Phil

Reply to
Phil

Strictly on practicality, the M3 is the better everyday car. More room inside, in the trunk, can carry 4 people without using a shoehorn. The Porsche is a better "sports car/grand tourer", but the Bimmer is simply more versatile. Oh...and this is from a veteran of owning Porsches for 30 years. With today's technology, the overall maintenance cost should not be much different...other than the fact that the Porsche still holds about twice as much oil.

Hope this helps...

Reply to
Weekend Guru

I own a 2002 Carrera 2 Coupe.

The BMW is a fine car with a more usable back seat and larger trunk. Build quality does not seem quite as good (seams on doors and fenders don't quite line up on some I've seen) as my Porsche, which was perfect. I think BMW covers the cost of normal service during the warranty period, but I don't know if that extends to used vehicles.

The 911 is an icon and simply one of the best sports cars in the world. The back seat is best left for storage or folks who aren't very tall With a routine service interval of 15,000 miles, you'll be doing service annually and depending on the mileage your cost could be $500+ for routine annual work (the car holds 11 quarts of Mobil 1 synthetic - most dealers are getting over $150 for an oil/filter change alone).

Rear tire life can be 8 - 20K miles depending on how hard you drive. Fronts go about twice as long, so at 15K miles a year you can expect to replace rear tires annually and fronts every other year. Depending on the brand, a set of rears can cost you $600 - $700, fronts can be $500.

Reliability wise, I don't think you'll go wrong either way.

If you opt for the Porsche, try to get a 2002 or later model. The 2002 cars got a larger engine (3.6 vs. 3.4 liter, 320 HP vs. 300) with better torque, some cosmetic changes and a much stiffer chassis.

I think the Porsche will definitely cost you more for routine maintenance and I've found the car is worth every penny.

If you've dreamed of owning a 911 and settle for the BMW, you won't be happy. If the 911 has no particular attraction for you the BMW is more cost effective and practical.

Reply to
Jim Keenan

A friend of mine owns a Porsche/BMW shop.

He told me the M3 is better for daily driving and maintenance.

He also said a Porsche never leaves his shop for under $800 no matter what the repair.

Reply to
Greg Gentry

As a matter of policy? I just got my first Porsche, a 86 930. It went in local independent shop here in New Hampshire the day after I got it when a seemingly damaging noise started to come from the right rear brakes. That turned out to be a broken emergency brake spring had snapped and released the brake. Not only did they fix that, they looked the whole car over and found all the little things I'd need to do down the road (being my first time in), and they changed the front hood struts they saw sitting in the trunk and then started to troubleshoot a ticking noise behind the dash they believe is caused by the Rattler alarm system on the car. $207. I was quite pleased and very relieved as I didn't know what to expect my first time in. My Audi would have been more to have all that done.

Reply to
Kyle Tucker

======================================================================

  • Reply by Jack D. Russell, Sr.
  • Newsgroup: alt.autos.porsche,alt.autos.porsche.911,alt.autos.bmw
  • Reply to: All; "Greg Gentry"
  • Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:06:54 -0500 GMT
  • Subj: Re: 911 vs M3 - for an everyday car ======================================================================

GG>A friend of mine owns a Porsche/BMW shop.

GG>He told me the M3 is better for daily driving and maintenance.

GG>He also said a Porsche never leaves his shop for under $800 no GG>matter what the repair.

That's not what I would call a friend. My mechanic (Bob Farmer-Greenfield, IN, 30 yrs. experience) is very well known and respected in the Porsche community, all over the country. He does all of the work for this region's PCA racing cars. I've had many repairs done that don't even come close to $800 US. As a matter of fact, I'm getting ready to have him replace the motor mounts on my 944 as I type. His quote for the job? $300 (including parts).

-- Jack

Reply to
Jack D. Russell, Sr.

I have read somewhere that the current 911s no longer have the dreaded trailing throttle oversteer. If so, I wonder how they accomplished this task. FWIW, that oversteer is only dreaded by the people who sleepwalk through driving classes. Jim

Reply to
Jim

Seems to me there was an almost identical thread just a few months ago. Try googling in this and the Porsche groups.

FloydR

"Jay" wrote

Reply to
fbloogyudsr

I just traded in my 2002 M3 for a '04 carrera cab 996.

The M3 is a more practical day-to-day car. Adults or kids can use the back seats easier than the Porsche and the trunk is much more useable. The M3 also had split bench fold down rear seats which I occasionally used for larger things.

The M3 does not have a spare, it has an electronic pump (they used the spare room for a low restriction exhaust) If you haul your own spare, you will lose that nice trunk room.

I had the M3 for 36000 miles and never had a major repair. There was a recall and there was a lot of concern for various engine issues in the

2000-2001 models but I never had a major problem. The seat motor burned out (probably my fat ass) the radio knob broke and one of the windows needed to be adjusted twice but nothing significant.

The M3 has a very light fly-wheel. Its clutch was actually kind of a PITA in traffic or in parking lots. I've had manuals all of my life and I still think the M3's light fly-wheel or some other aspect to its clutch made it too sensitive for my liking. The 911 has a pretty standard clutch that is easy to use.

The M3 had very good speed and handled very well. Many of the specs between the two cars are pretty close. I really notice the difference between the two cars though. The M3 does have 333 HP but it is pretty high in the powerband. The 911's engine feels torquey and it feels like it has a lower powerband. You really need to rev the M3 to feel the speed, I haven't felt that way in the 911.

With the M3 I felt like I was driving the chassis, in the 911 I feel every wheel. I actually drive slower now because I really enjoy the ride. You really get better road feel.

I see lots of M3s here in SoCal, I don't see as many Porsches. People seem to react differently to the Porsche.

In summary:

If you have kids - M3 If you drive in traffic - Porsche If you are single and looking for partners - Porsche

HTH,

John

'04 911 cab '02 M3 '00 540 6-speed '97 3000GT SL

Reply to
John

Things seem to change for every new generation. I remember well the days of the 1960's in So Cal. Go down to Manhattan Beach on a Sunday morn and every other car was a Porsche. Buys, taking their girl out to breakfast after a hot night. Gee, I loved Porsche's colors in those days. Tangerine, burnt orange, stop lite green, lemon yellow. Things you don't seem to find today. And SoCal wasn't unique. Went up to San Francisco (Laguna Seca) and Monterey would look like a Porsche convention. We'd get to where we didn't flash an oncoming Porsche, too many of them, so we'd just leave the headlites on. ;-) I either really miss those days OR I miss being 30-something! :-)

Don

John wrote:

Reply to
Don.

In fairness your venerable 944 is hardly the same maintenance picture as the

2001 911 the OP was talking about.

Good to hear that smart people take care of enthusiast cars for reasonable dollars though.

-Russ.

Reply to
Somebody

That characteristic has been tempered by suspension tuning and a large differential between front and rear tire sizes - my car has 225/40 - 18 fronts and 285/30 - 18 rears. The additional footprint in the rear helps, but the car still has 60% of its weight on the rear and will oversteer if you lift at the limits.

You're correct that oversteer is nothing to fear for a driver who understands and is capable of handling (exploiting) it - but the vast majority of the motoring public deals with cars that understeer or approach neutral and when they get a 911 at 10/10ths and do what comes naturally they're up the creek with an oversteer condition. It's easier to do with the earlier cars, but it can still be done.

Reply to
Jim Keenan

The 2002 and later cars developed max torque at 4,250 RPM and max horsepower at 6,800 RPM (7,300 RPM redline).

Reply to
Jim Keenan

Well, they still make a "Speed Yellow" color (which I prefer to call "Ticket Me Yellow").......

Reply to
Jim Keenan

The M3 does have 333 HP but it is pretty

The 2002 and later 911s (type 996) developed max torque at 4,250 RPM and max horsepower at 6,800 RPM...........

Reply to
Jim Keenan

Well, those days are gone, but the colors are coming back.

I've got my eye on a Pumpkin Orange Audi TT 3.2 with DSG!

Reply to
Stephen Clark

======================================================================

  • Reply by Jack D. Russell, Sr.
  • Newsgroup: alt.autos.porsche,alt.autos.porsche.911,alt.autos.bmw
  • Reply to: All; "Somebody"
  • Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:09:14 -0500 GMT
  • Subj: Re: 911 vs M3 - for an everyday car ======================================================================

S>In fairness your venerable 944 is hardly the same maintenance S>picture as the 2001 911 the OP was talking about.

Agreed, but in fairness, my 944 is not the only Porsche I've owned or paid Farmer's for maintenance costs on. It would seem to me that the 944 motor mounts are more of a job than the 911's and would be more expensive/time consuming to boot. The part I was replying to stated that "He also said a Porsche never leaves his shop for under $800 no matter what the repair." No model or repair type was mentioned.

S>Good to hear that smart people take care of enthusiast cars for S>reasonable dollars though.

Yes, there are qualified, honest and reasonable Porsche mechanics out there. They're getting harder to find and they're worth their weight in gold when you do find one anymore, but a blanket statement like "...never leaves his shop for under $800 no matter what the repair" still isn't what I'd consider reasonable, honest or "A friend". I know of another in Canada that fits the description too, if you need any Porsche work done. ;) Have a good one.

-- Jack

Reply to
Jack D. Russell, Sr.

I find that figure incredible for a 944 motor mount replacement, that's a little over three hours labor (no parts) in my area. Almost worth driving 10 hours to have the guy work on my car!

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

That "less than $800" story reminds me of 1998 when I finally found a 1988 911 in Austin, TX and brought it home to Santa Fe, NM. The car had two different Porsche mechanics in Austin give it a thumbs up.

I took it to a P mechanic in SF because I noticed the gas lines were leaking. He said "Yes, they all start leaking at 50K miles. That will be $500 please." Then he found dry, cracked wheel bearings. "That will be $500 please."

I had complained about stiff, hesitant, shifting into 2nd gear. He did the throwout shaft update, "That will be $200 please." And had to replace a warped flywheel and clutch, "$200 please". Then he had to flush the contaminated brake fluid and replace some cracked rubber brake hoses, "$100 please". And did a tuneup, "$150 please".

At least he said "please" for the $1,800 job after the Austin pre-purchase inspection of "$200 please".

Oh, and then there was the "$200 please" bent factory daisy wheel that was bent! And a new set of Michelin Pilots because the tires were so badly cupped.

And I never could get anyone to fix the squeeking seat belt retractor or the squeel in the AC fan when you shut it off. Later, when I sold it to someone I met here on the NG from San Francisco we found the leakdown test was way over limits, "$1,500 please". He ultimately replaced the transaxle for "$1,000 please" to get rid of a 4/5th gear whine that bugged him.

I believe the "$800 please" job!!! I can't afford those of mechanical bills on my retirement pay of $15,000 a year!!!

All the above proves, "There's one born every minute!" as Barnum said.

Don

Reply to
Don.

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