911 vs M3 - for an everyday car

The triumph of German engineering stubbornly refusing to capitulate to an inherently flawed design. Gotta love 'em!

FWIW, historically, most BMWs have had to deal with TTO as well. And you don't even want to *think* about trying to catch an errant E36 M3 more than once ...

-- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that)

Not since the kids left home!

Just need enough room for wife and schnauzer....

STC

Hey - hey - hey! That's enough of that kind of language around here!

john (old enough to remember when the M3s first came out)

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• Reply by Jack D. Russell, Sr.
• Newsgroup: alt.autos.porsche,alt.autos.porsche.911,alt.autos.bmw
• Reply to: All; "Nate Nagel"
• Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:53:37 -0500 GMT
• Subj: Re: 911 vs M3 - for an everyday car ====================================================================== NN>I find that figure incredible for a 944 motor mount replacement, NN>that's a little over three hours labor (no parts) in my area. NN>Almost worth driving 10 hours to have the guy work on my car!

Many do evidently. I've lived in or near Indianapolis my whole life. When I first started driving Porsches, I had my work (What I couldn't do myself) done at Giganti Porsche. That was the biggest Porsche dealer in the area at the time. After Gigantic left the area, I tried the only other Porsche dealer close to Indy. Their prices were to the moon. After I'd had my 944 for several trouble free years, the clutch went. Knowing what a job it is to do one and not wanting to risk not having a warrantee on the final results, I wanted an authorized Porsche shop to do the work, I put out a plea to some Rennlisters that I'd come to know pretty well. A Rennlister from New York recommended Bob Farmer to me and I called him. Turns out that Bob is a factory trained Porsche mechanic and worked for Giganti for many years before they left town. Since he already had a steady clientele that wouldn't trust their cars to anyone else anyway, Bob opened his own shop. His parking lot at his shop looks like a who's who of Porsche cars. I drool every time I go there. Incidentally...the local dealer wanted close to $3000 to do the clutch. Bob did my clutch (Everything, not just part of the job), engine seals, all belts and rollers including timing belt and one other thing that eludes me at the moment. He also checked out everything else on the car. He showed me the old parts. Total for the job...$1700 US and change.

-- Jack

I could see you you might get an $1800 bill for work that includes replacing a flywheel and clutch (+ pressure plate, +T/O and pilot bearings). The parts alone would be somewhere >$600. I doubt he'd be able to charge $200 for that job. Typically 10% of the purchase price of any used, "special" car is spent in bringing it up to snuff.

I've owned 911s pretty much continuously for the past 20 yrs or so. I would say I spend on average $500/year on all maintenance for weekend drivers, which includes bringing faulty items back up to spec after initial purchase. But doing the work myself keeps it simple.

Sheeit. I just *might* schedule my next clutch job concurrently with the South Bend Studebaker meet some year. Any ol' shop around here, good or no, gets at least 70-80 an hour. I have found a shop that seems to fit the description of your friend's shop, but the prices are WAY higher. (reasonable for this area, but still high in absolute terms.) I have my suspicions that I will need my torque tube bearings done as well, I don't want to think about that right now though.

nate

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• Reply by Jack D. Russell, Sr.
• Newsgroup: alt.autos.porsche,alt.autos.porsche.911,alt.autos.bmw
• Reply to: All; "Nate Nagel"
• Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 04:27:51 -0500 GMT
• Subj: Re: 911 vs M3 - for an everyday car ======================================================================

NN>Sheeit. I just *might* schedule my next clutch job concurrently NN>with the South Bend Studebaker meet some year. Any ol' shop NN>around here, good or no, gets at least 70-80 an hour. I have NN>found a shop that seems to fit the description of your friend's NN>shop, but the prices are WAY higher. (reasonable for this area, NN>but still high in absolute terms.) NN>I have my suspicions that I will need my torque tube bearings done NN>as well, I don't want to think about that right now though.

Schedule the service well in advance, in that case. As you could imagine, There will be many cars ahead of you, if you wait until the last moment. He had my car for two weeks when the clutch, etc. was done. I'll be glad to e-mail you his business card, but wouldn't want everybody in the country to show up ahead of me the next time I need work done. ;)

-- Jack

If you want an everyday car then I'd suggest not going with the "sport" suspension on the 911 - it's way too stiff for street driving in my experience. I found that a '98 non-sport C2 I drove was way quieter, and way more easy to drive than the E46 M3s but I chose the M3 'cos I only had room for one car. ...until now :-)

C.R. Krieger wrote:>

While the rear engine/rear wheel drive layout might not be the optimal configuration to permit an everyday driver to approach the car's limits without extra practice, the 911 has proven itself in competition and in the marketplace for decades.

I agree that for non-competition the standard suspension is adequate. But whether it has the sport suspension or not the beam and torsional stiffness of the 2002 and later coupes is 25% greater than the earlier cars.

"Jim Keenan" wrote

So tell me why the Carrera GT is mid-engined... Tell me why my wife's Boxster is mid-engined...

Floyd

Already did. But in case you weren't paying attention (and apparently you weren't) the point is that while a rear engine configuration is not optimal in terms of even weight distribution, it is not "inherently flawed".

Actually, I was paying attention - you just can't take a joke (although I see that I didn't put a smiley anywhere.)

Floyd

Yep, didn't realize it was a joke..........

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• Reply by Jack D. Russell, Sr.
• Newsgroup: alt.autos.porsche,alt.autos.porsche.911,alt.autos.bmw
• Reply to: All; "fbloogyudsr"
• Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:28:16 -0500 GMT
• Subj: Re: 911 vs M3 - for an everyday car ======================================================================

f>Actually, I was paying attention - you just can't take a joke f>(although I see that I didn't put a smiley anywhere.)

In that case, I won't mention that the 914 was mid-engine too. ;)

Some of them didn't have to be mid-engined to have near perfect weight distribution. :)

Bernard '84 928

There was a time with the 356's when we would refer to that as "power steering", with tongue in cheek. You could power your way through a turn with just the right amount of power and never have to turn the steering wheel. ;-) I loved it!

He's obviously never driven a late (1988-on) Carrera. He's probably remembering the (non-P) 914 that did handle better than the early Porsches.

Last 911/rear end Porsche I drove was a '94. I drove my wife's Boxster last week. My NSX was nastier than 911 and Boxster, but was much more reliable and better built.

FloydR