BMW M3 or Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe

"Dori A Schmetterling" wrote in news:40e99983$1$6451 $ snipped-for-privacy@news-text.dial.pipex.com:

Deutschland

Say "Merc" in the US and people will generally think you are speaking about a Mercury product.

Now you are reinforcing the "stupid American stereotype". You have a Mercedes-Benz. Three syllables....and don't you forget it :^)

I have two BMWs right now. I have owned 4 total. I am 31. I love BMWs.

Having said this, go for the 911. Better resale value, solid machine, beautiful looks. A Porsche will always be a Porsche. Nothing bad to say about the awesome M3. It is great. But it is not a Porsche, hard to explain. Drive both, go with the feel.

Hector Austin, TX.

Depreciation costs, however... And I gotta believe maintenance (beyond oil changes) is significantly more.

Cool.

I have to agree about driving them both before eyou make your decision. As a matter of fact, drive them multiple times....as many times as you possibly can. I did this with a C4S, a C2 and the M3. It really wasn't even close for me. The M3 felt far more like a on-the-edge sports car than the P-cars did. The Porsches were nice, but the acceleration was lacking (especialy in the C4) and they felt too tame. The M3 has a raw feel about when driven correctly that surpasses the feel of the P-car in my opinion. I did like the transmission feel of the Porsche however, but that was about it. Drive the cars back to back and then make your decision. That's really what matters the most.

In that case the pronunciation rendered into English is, of course, closer to beh em veh.

(And, BTW, what is so remarkable about that?)

:-) DAS

Yes, so I have heard. Can't help those people's problems.. :-))

Re your previous post, Mercedes-Benz contains four syllables, doesn't it ...

Can we now move to discussing the number of angels dancing on a pinhead..?...

:-) DAS

Oh oh! I didn't leave the telling 3 dots of sarcasm.

You see Angels dancing on Jack?

Just joking, just joking :^)

Road and Track ran a 0-60 time of 4.6 seconds in a 2004 C4S, about .04 faster to 60 than the average M3 time of about 5.0 seconds. A well driven 2WD Carrera should be able to pull off 4.5 seconds. The M3 is a VERY good sports coupe, but not quite a 911 beater if both cars are driven to their limits by competant drivers. IMO, the M3 is better compared to the Boxster S.

Someone please kill this thread

I think it's not so much a case of it lacking, as a case of the tell-tales being muted. With the softer rides and quieter exhausts of modern Porsches, you don't get all the sensations of going fast. Ironically, BMW works to make the M3 more raw to distance it from its sedan origins, while Porsche works to reduce such things as the 911 evolves more into a GT than a sports car. This sort of thing is why my 944 sounds faster than my other 2 Porsches - it's free-revving nature, rorty exhaust, and bumpy ride give it the impression of speed. Great for city driving, where the other two will get me into trouble by the time external indicators tell me I'm speeding! :-) Emanuel

This post will be only my 2nd to the thread. I didn't think it was that old.

I agree, partially. The 996 still isn't a GT in the same way or on the same level as the 928 or Ferrari's 575M. It's still a sports car and the 997 promises to return some of the 993 spirit to us. But you do have a point. BMW needs the M3 to have sharp edges because they can't afford for it to just be a

330i wearing boy-racer clothing. Of course, many would argue that the current M3 (CSL Edition aside) is not as "raw" or "hard" as the original 4-cylinder model was.

Are you sure? The 996 is pretty big and heavy and easy to drive. Fancy interiors and automatic trannys.

Porsche knows how to make a buck and, as much as it's venerated, RS models have a very small market.

Steve Grauman wrote:

That was the basis of my comment. I think a big reason the 928 was discontinued was, with the advent of the Tiptronic 911 models, you had a car that was pretty much a GT already, making the 928 redundant. The

911s now weigh about the same, offer comparable space, and have similar hp - all that's missing is GT-like carrying capacity. Definitely, I'd say the difference between the 928 and 911 *before* the 993 was more significant. The 911 has grown a lot softer over the years, mostly because it's market has gotten older and softer, and expect a lot of gadgets and features for the price. Porsche definitely couldn't now get away with the sort of features my '83 911 has compared to my 928 - say just power windows, 4-way seats, no automatic option, simple HVAC rather than climate control. Emanuel

While the 996 is slightly longer and wider than the 993, it weighs less. A standard suspension car will pull .9+ G on a skidpad; sport suspension models can approach 1 G.

Compared to the penultimate 928, the 928GTS, a 2002 and later 996 weighs nearly 500 pounds less, is at least half a second quicker to 60 MPH and has a top speed 13 MPH higher. The back seat of a 928 is more accomodating than that of a 996.

The trailing throttle oversteer characteristic of earlier 911s has been muted in the 996, but the car still retains about 60% of its weight on the rear wheels. To maximize performance, a driver needs to understand and be able to deal with oversteer that can appear when driving a 996 at

10/10ths. For normal driving, yes, the car has no vices.

The standard interior on a 996 features mostly vinyl with some leather and can hardly be deemed "fancy". Porsche does offer a myriad of options that allow customization to suit a buyer's particular tastes, but the base car remains (and can be had) relatively spartan.

Porsche offered a "Sportomatic" transmission as far back as 1967 on some

911 models. A "Tiptronic" transmission was available on 964 and 993 type 911s. The 996 is no different than its predecessors in offering an automatic transmission.

Toys? Passion? Aren't these motivations strong enough if you can afford? I owned many Porsche, I had Ferraris and I was close to buy a Viper if it wasn't for the incredible attituted of the salesmen. Unfortunately (I'm sure there are exception) buying a VIper is like buying a Chevy with a sleazy salesman all over you telling lies as fast as his mouth can open. BTW, I found an Italian article that I've on PDF and I could email to you where it shows the TT clearly winning over the RT10. THey were cars w/o modifications.

G.

Tyler,

I have a '97 993 (I use two syllables :) ). I've driven a few M's, but not a lot of them.

My wife demanded I sell the porsche two years ago (after we bought a sedan). I think I've won that battle finally :). There's nothing more fun than a 911. Surprisingly, it has been the most reliable car I've ever owned. It's never been in the shop for more than minor maintenance. If you are a big guy, you should probably go with the M5. I'm 5'10" 225lbs. and I'm about at the limit for real comfort in my car. It's reliable as a daily driver, which I used it for for about three years. I used to go to dealerships and drool over them and one day I asked how much I would need as a down payment if I wanted $X / month payments and the guy said "nothing", threw me the keys to test drive (didn't come with), and I bought the car after driving it for two blocks, and turning around before my wife changed her mind.

I've owned a slew of cars (jetta, rabbit, bug, fox, jag, mustang, expedition, navigator, corolla, rodeo, 200sx, 911, mercedes, and I know I'm missing some...), and I have to say that the Germans have it down. Reliable, good styling, great performance.

Drive them first though. I was a little disappointed to drive the water-cooled 911's when they came out (too easy of a drive, not enough feeling that you're driving) and I haven't been back. In my car it's waaay too easy to not pay attention for a second and look down at your speedo and realize you are driving 120. When you test drive, ignore the sales guy. Push it hard, hit the brakes hard, corner fast. You want to know what the car can do before you plunk down 70-100 grand. Go drive them both three times before you buy. You want to feel them in all kinds of traffic (light, none, heavy).

I'm about to buy my first BMW, and so far they seem great, but I'm going for a family sedan this time, not a sports car.

I hear they actually include cup holders in 911's now. It was a $150 option in my car! (for a crappy one at that).

Either way, I recommend a drive up PCH from Cambrio to Monterrey, right about sunset, on a weekday. The most fun I've ever had, and I've done it twice now. (california)