1 millionth Prius sold in the USA

Perfect for Florida, south Texas and large parts of California.

Bob Wilson

. . .

BTW, did you notice Toyota sold or 18,000 in March? Here is the Wall Street Journal list of the top 20:

Bob Wilson

For the cold weather problem, yeah. But still not intended for auto use.

One wonders what the makers of said battery would say if you told them you were putting it into the enclosed space in the passenger compartment of the Prius.

It isn't an 'auto', it is a hybrid. As you have already volunteered, the battery only needs to be strong enough to 'throw some relays.' BTW, I read one report of a Prius being started from two, 6 V., lantern batteries.

If you are going to invite a battery vendor, they should bring datasheets for their battery AND measurements of the starting and operating electrical load from the different Prius models. It would also help if they'll bring some failure rate data so we can estimate their life in a Prius. Better still, if they come prepared to discuss how the Prius 12V electrical system works, again, we'll have an interesting conversation. Best, if they want to suggest a specific lawn tractor battery, many of which include a vent tube, that too would contribute to the conversation. Do you have anyone in mind?

Bob Wilson

No. The 2011 Accord with the 3.5L V6 engine has a timing belt. Presumably you would consider a 2011 model to be 'modern.'

A timing belt turns the overhead camshaft. It it breaks, the engine will no longer run leaving you stranded even if your engine is a non-interference type. If your engine is an interference type, expensive engine damage may occur. However, the recommended replacement interval on the timing belt is 110k miles so the amortized repair cost at 100k would be only 91 percent of the final bill. Of course, the Prius has not timing belt to replace.

Timing belts are more popular with engine manufacturers due to the lower cost and weight advantages. A chain is more durable.

Yes it is. If the engine is maintained properly, the timing chain will last for the life of the engine.

The much more popular, and much more equivalent to a Prius, 4 cylinder Accord uses a timing chain. Funny that you ignored that in your rush to rationalize your Prius discussion.

But your argument was the horrible damage that would necessarily occur if a timing belt broke, and therefore the Prius was superior to other cars because it uses a timing chain. You are conveniently and completely ignoring that (a) the Prius is far from alone in using a timing chain, and (b) the Prius is far from alone in being a non-interference engine.

Your contention that the Prius is "special" in this way is just you trying to rationalize your Prius purchase.

Which is exactly why many manufacturers use a chain, a fact you are trying desperately to dismiss.

There is no sand too deep for you to stick your head into as you try to rationalize your Prius purchase.

dude, it's an automobile. It still runs over public roads, for all that's worth, for thousands of miles and in all sorts of weather--from extremely hot to extremely cold. And it has to work like an appliance, period.

A tractor battery was never intended or designed to be used in such an environment. That's a fact.

Well, you might actually be right about that. I knew that the Prius auxilliary battery was a small lead-acid battery and was presumably inexpensive but had not actually priced one of them. After doing that, yeah, they are over a $100 to replace. If it has a low demand, it's only because they are not failing in large numbers, probably for the reason I mentioned previously which was that the auxilliary battery is not used to start the Prius whereas in in a non-hybrid car it is. Starting an engine is a heavy current draw and presumably shortens the battery life. If the Prius auxilliary batterys do eventually fail in large numbers, I would expect that the price would come down as there is nothing different about the Prius auxilliary battery compared with many other small lead-acid batteries and competition would probably bring the price down to the $50 dollar range.

The large majority of the Honda Accords on the road have timing belts.

My argument was that timing belt replacement was required in most non-hybrid cars comparable to the Prius while in the Prius it was not.

My Prius has already paid for itself...but it is important to also point out that there are significant maintenance and repair cost savings with the Prius in addition to the obvious fuel savings.

The large majority of the cars on the road are not Prius.

But I thought we were talking about comparing the Prius to a modern car.

Yet it remains that most non-hybrid cars do not use timing belts.

You are inventing things out of thin air.

It's so small for exactly the reason you describe--because Toyota sized and designed it for exactly its duty in life.

In other words, that battery is exactly analogous to the other 12v car battery people think of--it has the same capacity relative to its bigger brother, proportioned for its duty, and it has the same life.

Toyota did not make something that was more expensive than it had to be, just because this was a Prius.

dude, it's an automobile. It still runs over public roads, for all that's worth, for thousands of miles and in all sorts of weather--from extremely hot to extremely cold. And it has to work like an appliance, period.

A tractor battery was never intended or designed to be used in such an environment. That's a fact.

Where I live tractor batteries are expected to, and do, perform in a temperature range from -40F to +105F. That's a fact.

Spelling punctuation, what a novel way to hide abysmal ignorance. Our hybrids are so different from the primitive, gas-only cars as to compare a B-2 stealth bomber to a 1930s biplane. For example, using the EPA web site:

It is an ordinary battery so anyone can use it as they wish. This is a freedom apparently opposed by our local 'battery worshiper.'

Bob Wilson

. . .

The Prius is the modern car only slightly equaled by some of the newer plug-in and electric vehicles. In short, every gas or diesel vehicle remains stuck in a simple technology for simple minds.

Bob Wilson

But nonetheless is still a modern car.

Neither you nor I know what the capacity of the Toyota auxilliary battery is, nor do we know what its duty is, nor do we know what its service life will be. The only guide we have for life is what other prius owners are experiencing and I am in the forefront on that as I am the owner of a 2nd gen prius with not that many owners in front of me. So far, my auxilliary battery is fine. The enemies of lead-acid batteries are deep cycling, cold, and time. The prius auxilliary battery would only deep cycle if someone leaves a light on for an extended period. If you don't do that, it will never deep cycle.

It's a little surprising that toyota even sells the auxilliary batteries. For example, I would never go to a Ford dealer to buy a battery for a Ford. If replacement of the prius auxilliary batteries becomes widespread (so far that does not seem to be the case) then I am sure that the national auto parts chains like CarQuest, O'Reilly, NAPA, etc will begin stocking a replacement part and it will likely be much cheaper than the $112 price.

What?

It's surprising that an automaker sells parts for its cars???

A lead-acid battery is just not something that very many people buy from the dealer. It's kind of like tires...how many people buy tires from the dealer?