Prius Power - 112 hours, 8 gallons

Compelling case. What's involved with the inverter add-on?

First select the inverter. I went with a 1 kW/1.2 kW surge, inverter bought in 2004 for $80. I see that Harbor Freight has a similar unit for $79 rated at 1.0/2.0 kW. However, if I were doing it from scratch, I would seriously consider two options:

A) ~900 W, sine-wave inverter - should handle extension cords with less voltage loss and should keep motors a little cooler. Unfortunately, they are less efficient, 88% versus 92% for modified sine-wave.

B) consider 1.2/1.5 kW modified sine wave - the risk is the inverter has a 100 A. fusible link and if the 12V battery doesn't pick up the load, the fusible link could blow. However, there have been several incidents suggesting the 12 DC-to-DC converter has protected the fusible link by blowing first!

C) Use an 80A RV, circuit breaker on the inverter feed circuit. These are available from RV electronic suppliers. It is better to shutoff the inverter than risk blowing the fusible link. I have not had a problem with the 1/1.2 kW inverter but why run the risk?

The only weakness is the 100A fusible link which already is known to inadequately protect the DC-to-DC converter electronics. I might consider replacing it with a fast-acting, solid-state, current limiter that has very low conduction up to say 100 A and then absolutely clamps it at 100 A. These are sophisticated devices and I would probably design my own.

Next design the mounting as you want short leads to your 12V battery. It does not require cooling air when not in use but when turned on, it needs to be freely exposed. I prefer a permanent installation as in low-load conditions, it can also power laptops on trips.

Bob Wilson

Thanks for your insight. Has anyone commercialized an aftermarket option?

. . .

Not that I've heard but my inspiration came from Toyota and Ford:

o Toyota Estima Hybrid Minivan - it was reported as having at least 1 kW, AC inverter o Ford Escape - originally reported as having a 1.5 kW inverter option. However, the early Ford sales literature did not list it as an option.

Now GM once sold a Silverado pickup with a 3 kW power capability for contractors. However, as a hybrid, it was another GM joke.

Now the plans for my next inverter modification kinda leaves the 12V inverter solution in the dust ... but let me get some more work done first.

Bob Wilson

bwilson4web:

Really? I have an '06 Prius and it's a good car. Superior to every other car? I think not. Would that not depend on the purpose for which the car was intended? Superior to a Miata for top-down cruising on a warm summer evening? Not. Superior to a 72 Chevy for carrying six people in quiet and comfort? Not.

Additionally, I have had more recalls in the 20 years of Honda ownership.

Davoud

Great story except for the one sentence above. Is that really true? Catalytic converters greatly reduce emmissions, but I had never heard that they eliminate carbon monoxide. I would hate for someone to read your post and then run their car (Prius or otherwise) in a closed garage.

I would accept:

"It has a catalytic converter that reduces by 99% the amount of carbon monoxide." (See Wiki entry on carbon monoxide poisoning.)

Bob Wilson

Ohmigod, did you really say that?

More proof that the fanboi Prius owners are total and complete idiots.

You go ahead and run that baby inside your closed attached garage, with the back door open so you can run the power cord inside. Go right ahead. The gene pool will thank you.

Every other car has a catalytic converter, too. And many cars are SULEV anymore.

Are you truly and honestly saying that the Prius is a superior car because it has a catalytic converter and therefore gives off no--or at best meaningless amounts of--carbon monoxide, such that you can run the car inside your house with no ill effects???

Go right ahead. Show us how that works.

"Historically, it was also commonly used as a method to commit suicide, usually by deliberately inhaling the exhaust fumes of a running car engine. Modern cars with electronically controlled combustion and catalytic converters produce so little carbon monoxide that this is much less viable."

You have taken a simple Wiki entry--not a technical journal, not a health journal, but a publicly editable web page--and declared it to be Truth on par with actual edited technical and health journals, and turned that into "it has a catalytic converter, therefore it doesn't produce carbon monoxide".

In addition, you use that as "proof" that the Prius is a "superior car to all others", even though all others ALSO have catalytic converters.

You are a total wacko.

The Prius is superior for a number of reasons of which one is the ability to provide emergency power: the ability to run 112 hours generating emergency power for only two gallons per day and; makes 99% less carbon monoxide than non-catalytic converter generators and; quieter than under-mufflered generators that buzzed all night several houses down, across the street and; still still the Prius gets over 50 MPG commuting to work when the emergency is over and; is maintained in contrast to the infrequent and spotty maintenance history of so many other non-automotive based generators.

The Honda, Ford, and even some GM hybrids have similar characteristics which makes this group, the hybrids superior as generators than any ordinary gasser or diesel. For example, a Jetta TDI would have long since burned up all its fuel while generating a fraction of the power. The reason is the Jetta TDI has to run the engine constantly to make power and the rated alternator output occurs as speeds higher than idle. They are entirely unsuitable for emergency generator.

This is the area were every other gasser or diesel can not follow, emergency power generator, and makes the Prius superior to them.

Bob Wilson

I'm repeating what you're saying.

That you don't like seeing that in the light of day, is your problem. But it doesn't change the fact that you're saying random, false things, pulling them out of thin air.

Well that is a lie.

Actually I enjoy re-reading my own posts. Especially when they are about the best car on the market today, the Prius.

Bob Wilson

"The Prius is a superior car because it has a catalytic converter, and doesn't emit carbon monoxide."

You may want to deny that's what you said, but it is what you said.

Stick your head in the sand all you want.

Quoting out of context, what a silly thing to post. You are so transparent and useless. You just can't stand the truth that the superior Prius is both the most efficient car on the road today but also a very safe, emergency power source. It is much safer than a gas generator and more practical. So after power was restored, I unplugged the Prius to run errands and commute to work.

Think about what a difference a population of Prius and other hybrids with 1-1.5 kW, AC power could have made for any of the recent disasters:

1) lights - so recovery work can proceed after sunset. 2) communications - recharging cell phones but also TV and radio 3) heating and cooling - so people can rest at night without freezing or sleep without heat exhaustion 4) refrigeration - so we can eat the food we have and not be so dependent upon bringing in early food stocks

We use Prius power about once per year for various durations. Wind storms have knocked down power lines in the summer and we slept in an air conditioned bedroom in 80F weather. Ice storms have knocked down power lines and we have run the gas furnace to stay warm, something important for my wife. Equipment failures have taken the power and we simply plugged-in to our Prius. In each case, we've had broadcast TV and radio to learn more about the extent of the emergency. And each power outage has taught lessons that are inevitably leading us towards co-generation.

Bob Wilson

Those were your words. Denying that is beneath you.

That you had to be corrected by someone who knows the facts, such simple facts, tells all about your grasp of simple facts.

We've already gone over the Prius catalytic converter removes 99% of the carbon monoxide. But I don't mind going over this subject again as repetition sometimes work with those who are not very bright ... although not so successful with sociopaths. Still, we'll assume you're just not very bright and this is an important safety aspect of Prius emergency power along with:

o 2 gallons/day - because the 12V power comes from the traction battery, the engine cycles on and off as needed to sustain the charge. As the load increases, the cycling is faster and under partial power, a slower cycle. In contrast gassers and diesels vehicles have to run all the time, regardless of load. Those vehicles just can not match Prius efficiency and spew carbon monoxide continuously.

o 11.5-12 gallon tank - giving a Prius as much as 5-6 days of operation without having to be refueled. Furthermore, refueling is safer because the fuel filler is away from the engine and hot exhausts. In contrast, most standalone generators have to be refueled several times per day.

o maintained - in contrast with gas engine generators, the Prius is used daily and receives regular maintenance. There is no question about whether or not it will run when needed or possibly fail because it was not touched for a year or more.

o Ultra Low Emission Vehicle / Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle - which eliminates 99% of the carbon monoxide that a standalone generator releases. This lowers the risk of death by poisoning by a factor of 100. In contrast, standalone generators are a well known health hazard the CDC reports on:

"Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Hurricane-Associated Use of Portable Generators --- Florida, 2004

The four major hurricanes that struck Florida during August 13-- September 25, 2004, produced electric power outages in several million homes (1). After the hurricanes, the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) investigated six deaths in Florida attributed to carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning (CPSC, unpublished data, 2004). The Florida Department of Health and CDC analyzed demographic and CO exposure data from these fatal poisoning cases and from nonfatal poisoning cases among 167 persons treated at 10 hospitals, including two with hyperbaric oxygen (HBO2) chambers. . . ."

"Carbon Monoxide Poisoning After Hurricane Katrina --- Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi, August--September 2005

On September 30, this report was posted as an MMWR Early Release on the MMWR website

Hurricane Katrina made landfall on August 29, 2005, on the Gulf Coast of the United States, causing loss of life, widespread property damage, and power outages. After hurricanes, some residents use portable generators and other gasoline-powered appliances for electrical power and cleanup. These devices produce carbon monoxide (CO), and improper use can cause CO poisoning (1,2). During August 29-- September 24, a total of 51 cases of CO poisoning were reported by hyperbaric oxygen (HBO2) facilities in Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi. This report describes these cases and the rapidly implemented reporting system that identified them. CO poisoning can be prevented by reducing exposure to CO through appropriate placement and ventilation of gasoline-powered engines. . . ."

"Carbon Monoxide Poisonings After Two Major Hurricanes --- Alabama and Texas, August--October 2005

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita struck the U.S. Gulf Coast on August 29,

2005, and September 24, 2005, respectively, causing widespread damage and leaving approximately 4 million households without electrical power (1,2). Despite public health measures to prevent carbon monoxide (CO) poisonings after major power outages, multiple CO poisonings were reported in Gulf Coast states in the wake of these hurricanes (3). The Alabama Department of Public Health and Texas Department of State Health Services asked CDC to assist in investigating the extent and causes of these hurricane-related CO poisonings. The investigation identified 27 incidents of CO poisoning resulting in 78 nonfatal cases and 10 deaths in hurricane-affected counties in Alabama and Texas, nearly all of which were caused by gasoline-powered generators. Most of the generators involved were placed outside but close to the home to power window air conditioners (ACs) or connect to central electric panels. Few homes had functioning CO detectors. CDC continues to recommend that generators be placed far from homes, away from window ACs, and that CO detectors be used by all households operating gasoline-powered appliances (e.g., generators and gas furnaces), with batteries replaced yearly. Although the risk for CO poisoning likely decreases as generators are placed further from the home, additional studies are needed to establish a safe distance for generator placement."

Safety is important and normal generators can be deadly. In contrast, the Prius has two orders of magnitude lower emissions because of the catalytic converter and the carbon monoxide hazard is substantially reduced. Add to that the Prius engine cycles on and off giving the air a chance to clear.

So keep it up as I have no problem with citing again and again the facts and data you seem incapable of admitting. The Prius is a superior solution including as an emergency power supply. When the emergency is over, it goes back to being the most fuel efficient car outside of the electrics and plug-ins.

Bob Wilson

The point isn't that it removes carbon monoxide; the point is that you thought the Prius didn't produce carbon monoxide at all due to the catalytic converter.

You don't know s*it about how cars work.

That it removes 99% of the CO is not unique to the Prius, either, but you think it is. You continue to say that the Prius is "a superior car" because of that fact, yet the Prius engine puts out just as much CO as any other modern car engine.

You really don't know anything about cars, but you spout off as you do. Expect to be called on your ignorance.

Actually it is exactly the point. The Prius is an exceptionally safe emergency power supply.

That is fair enough as you're still losing the argument. Instead of bringing facts and data to the discussion, you try and try again, like a sociopath, to make-up totally false claims. The Prius remains the best car not only for low maintenance, high mileage and the ability to provide safe, emergency power.

This is where again, you're so wrong because no gasser or diesel can equal the Prius ability to provide very safe, emergency power, efficiently. Again, you are so wrong.

Just stating the facts and data in your face in your face again.

1) 2 gallons per day - providing excellent efficiency saving fuel 2) 11.5-12 gallons per tank - providing up to 5 to 6 days of continuous running 3) maintained - as a commuter and work car, regular operation and maintenance so it is reliable 4) quiet - so it doesn't join the generator buzz night and day 5) safest emissions - with 99% of the carbon monoxide removed and intermittent engine operation, the carbon monoxide risk is at least two orders of magnitude lower than ordinary gas generators and significantly lower than continuously running gasser and diesels

So yes indeed, I appreciate another opportunity to list the superior capabilities of the Prius in this especially important aspect. Well certainly important to folks who live in disaster areas or go without house power for significant intervals.

Bob Wilson