Ah, no it doesn't. Yes, anything that burns anything puts out CO. That is just the way it is. The Prius engine does pollute. It does not put out as much CO, because it is a more efficient system. The "engine" is just part of the system. Also, not all "modern" engines are really that "modern". Some are very efficient and some still aren't.
Something kept nagging me at the back of the mind and suddenly I was reminded of this:
Run time is 5 to 6 hours per propane cylinder. Emissions protected by 3-way catalytic muffler. . . . "
We have these huge, warehouse stores and super markets and the staff are always running these things to clean and polish the floor. When I first ran into them, I was concerned about carbon monoxide but one whiff of the exhaust convienced me they were safe. The three-way catalytic converter technology mentioned in the ad is what we have in our Prius. In fact, monitoring of the catalytic converter is the primary purpose of the "Check Engine" light . . . to let us know when it has failed. But you've got me thinking we can quantify the risk.
The California Air Resources Board publishes the carbon monoxide rate for different vehicles and this can be used to calculate the total amount generated per gallon burned and volume of exhaust gas. Then using the CDC threshold, 100 ppm, as the safety limit, we can calculate the 'at the tail pipe' concentration and how much dilute air is needed to reach 100 ppm, if any. It is entirely possible that the carbon dioxide level and absence of oxygen is the remaining risk from running a Prius in an enclosed, air-tight garage. Carbon dioxide and lack of oxygen can kill too but it takes a lot longer than carbon monoxide. Carbon monoxide has over a 200 times greater affinity for hemoglobin than oxygen which is why it so much more dangerous.
Thanks, Bob Wilson
Bob Wilson
This turned out to be very interesting!
CARB reports "0.4 gm/mile" of CO
Using 45 MPG, gasoline density, fuel/air mixture ratio, we can calculate the CO PPM of straight exhaust from the catalytic converter:
409.46 ppm - CO, yes it exceeds the 100 ppm the CDC reportsIt is also at 450F so before on could die of carbon monoxide poisoning, the 450F temperature cooks your lungs, throat and you basicly burn to death.
Ok, let's cool it down so it is breathable. The coolest temperature was 50F so diluting the exhaust to bring it down to say 80F, only 7.5% is exhaust and the carbon monoxide ratio is 30.71 ppm ... not fatal.
Ok, what is the temperature to reach 100 ppm, the CDC limit?
Well that ratio is 25.5% and a temperature of 148F. You don't suppose you might notice it?
So to make make a poisonous, carbon monoxide gas mixture, it has to be too hot to breath. If the mix is breathable, it won't kill you.
Bob Wilson
Those were your words. Denying that is beneath you.
That you had to be corrected by someone who knows the facts, such simple facts, tells all about your grasp of simple facts.
It seems as if you missed Bob's point entirely. Of course the Prius produces less CO than a conventional generator. If you didn't miss his point, then you must have quoted him out of context simply to pick a fight. Well, Elmo, in your futile attempt to make him look stupid you have made your self look stupid and this isn't the first time.
So to make make a poisonous, carbon monoxide gas mixture, it has to be too hot to breath. If the mix is breathable, it won't kill you.
Bob Wilson
Er... I think not! Tell that to relatives of the thousands of garage suicides and thousands of accidental gas furnace exhaust inhalers who died in their sleep.
no, I didn't quote out of context. He said what he said very plainly--because he's trying to twist things around to make things look different than they are.
He thinks he needs to do that in order to convince people he's right.
Stop confusing Bob with facts that make his Prius look less than the perfect car.
In Bob's little world, the perfect car doesn't emit CO; therefore, if you ask him, he'll tell you his Prius doesn't emit CO. Problem solved--at least for him.
I asked him to go ahead and put his Prius inside an attached garage and turn it on, and leave the house door open to run the electric cord inside. For some reason, he apparently declined.
Come on, Bob. Let's see a chart of CO concentration in your house over time as you run your non-CO-emitting Prius inside your garage to power your house.
When can we expect THAT chart, eh, Bob?
The facts and data are different. It turns out home emergency generators and using open flames indoors are the true risk and certainly not the Prius. This is what the Center for Disease Control, CDC, reports:
Bob Wilson
When you make your own ... if ever. Still, like an typical, troll, you post your own strawmen, attribute them to others, and then knock yourself down. So sad and pathetic but it gives me another opportunity to share the facts and data.
The safety aspects of a Prius as an emergency generator is clearly superior to all other cars with the exception of EVs and plug-ins. As for carbon monoxide risk, it is exceptionally tame as I pointed out before:
CARB reports "0.4 gm/mile" of CO (for the NHW11 model Prius)
Using 45 MPG, gasoline density, fuel/air mixture ratio, we can calculate the CO PPM of straight exhaust from the catalytic converter:
409.46 ppm - CO, yes it (the straight exhaust) exceeds the 100 ppm the CDC reportsIt is also at 450F so before on could die of carbon monoxide poisoning, the 450F temperature cooks your lungs, throat and you are burned to death. (This is close to the maximum temperature of many home ovens if you'd like to sample the experience.)
Ok, let's cool it down so it is breathable. The coolest temperature was 50F so diluting the exhaust to bring it down to say 80F, only 7.5% is exhaust and the carbon monoxide ratio is 30.71 ppm ... not fatal.
Ok, what is the temperature to reach 100 ppm, the CDC limit?
Well that ratio is 25.5% and a temperature of 148F. You don't suppose you might notice it?
So to make make a poisonous, carbon monoxide gas mixture, it has to be too hot to breath. If the mix is breathable, it won't kill you.
So here we have a place where Prius exceptionalism can not be matched by gassers and diesels:
1) efficient emergency power generation - two gallons per day because it cycles the engine as needed to sustain the traction battery. 2) huge tank removed from hot engine - the 11.5 to 12.1 gallon tank provides 5 to 6 days of power. Although not recommended, one can wait for the engine to cycle off and fill the tank then. 3) quiet - the automotive muffler and low engine rpm makes it all but impossible to hear across the property line. 4) safe - extremely low levels of carbon monoxide that undiluted would be too hot to breath and diluted to breathable temperatures, below the CDC 100 ppm threshold 5) reliable - unlike emergency generators, the vehicle maintenance and operation all but guarantees it will work versus the neglected unit that hasn't been run since the last power outage a year or more agoPerfection? No but definitely superior to anything else.
Bob Wilson
no, I didn't quote out of context. He said what he said very plainly--because he's trying to twist things around to make things look different than they are.
He thinks he needs to do that in order to convince people he's right.
You don't know what "context" means.
. . .
I got an e-mail asking about inverter installation in a different Prius and this is what I shared:
You want the inverter to be mounted as close to the 12V battery as possible because of the high current it draws. Now that depends upon which model of Prius you have:
NHW11 (2001-03) - left side of the trunk
I am planning something similar for my wife's car with a few changes:
1) mounted in the under floor storage area again with a barrier so stuff won't crash into the wires. 2) permanent 12V ground cable 3) 80A circuit breaker, safe mounted (found in RV supply stores) 4) 1kW, sine wave inverter (they are much better now!)I've got to fill out a spreadsheet looking at the different models and costs but it looks like it will run $170-250 depending upon options. One key requirement is remote ON/OFF so it can be normally kept in an off state until needed. But I'm on the fence about:
- no metrics
- built-in power indicators (makes it easier to balance the load during outage)
- USB port (then I need to hook up a computer and run a program and ...)
- - - end of note - - -
So the offer stands, either send an e-mail and I'll repost the answer in the original thread keeping confidence or we can take this thread to a moderated group where due to their predictable patterns, the sociopaths quickly lose access when they go personal:
Bob Wilson
On May 7, 12:59 pm, bwilson4web wrote: . . .
One warning is all loads need to be tested before the emergency:
o inrush - more than a few devices impose a significant inrush current that can trip the power limits of the inverter. This can be as brief as a single cycle. Mitigation can consist of starting the inrush loads first but this is marginal. A better solution is to install an inrush thermistor for that device.
o sustained temperature effects - motors are known to run warmer from a modified, sine-wave source. What I did was measure the motor external temperature after six hours on line power and then repeat the test using the inverter power. A couple of degrees is not going to be a problem but the time to find out is when you can get it repaired, not during the power outage.
o use a quality UPS buffer - there will be a power loss but the UPS can clean-up the power. A better solution is use a modern, sine-wave inverter.
Sad to say, we have a Panasonic, plasma TV that started failing during the power outage. It should be back next week from warranty repair. Then I'll test our Samsung LCD, backup TV. However, I'm thinking about configuring my wife's Prius with a +1 kW, sine--wave inverter.
Having two Prius power systems provides redundancy during an extended power outage. We can can then drive the spare car to get more fuel and eliminate having to fill a spare gas can. Furthermore, splitting the load allows us to run more major appliances.
Bob Wilson
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