The "compromise" in the Prius drive train

Technology moves along...

As mentioned in another thread, the Prius engine must operate over a wide range of RPM and load because it provides a combination of propulsion and battery-charging. The electric motor means that the Prius engine will not have to meet the challenge of acceleration from zero speed, thus limiting its range of RPM and load and permitting improved efficiency.

Engines can be made extremely efficient when designed for a constant load and rpm. The Volt, for example, will charge from the grid and then drive for (supposedly) 40 miles, and then the engine kicks in to begin charging the system. That engine will always see the same load, etc. so can be designed to run very fuel-efficiently.

From an engineering viewpoint, the Prius is a great achievement. The Volt and the many cars to follow that model are far simpler - and in engineering, simplicity is always better than complexity. In fact, there's a good argument that the Volt is not a "hybrid" - it's an electric car that carries an onboard charger...

Like most, I hope GM does a good job of executing the Volt, that Toyota soon introduces its plug-in car, and that many other car companies follow suit. And I especially hope that emerging ultracapacitor technologies overtake electrochemical batteries for car applications.

Ike

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Ike
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Mostly correct. Both the Toyota and Honda hybrid systems, although different, are using the electric power system to make up for the defficiencies of an ordinary heat engine.

Yes and no. The thermodynamic efficiency of the engine should be high. But it wiill have these energy conversions: (1) engine->generator ~95% (2) generator->motor ~95% (3) generator->battery ~95% (4) battery->motor ~95%

In the engine->generator->motor conversions: .95*.95 = 90% (assuming the 95% is maintained)

In the engine->generator->battery->motor conversions: .95*.95*.95*.95 = 81% (assuming 95% is maintained)

The typical Prius efficiency is a little more complex: (1) 72% of power is: ICE->transaxle ~95% (2) 28% of power is: ICE->generator->MG1 (.95*.95 = 90%)

.72*.95 = .68 .28*.90 = .25

----------------- .93%

We agree and the Prius has been on the roads since 1997.

No argument here. The 'plug-in' is just tapping a different power source.

Agreed and some of the stuff that has leaked out sounds very promising. The environmental chamber for the batteries is a very good solution to a difficult problem.

My current thinking is if the plug-in energy can keep the ICE in a 'thermal warm-up idle' until the block reaches the right temperature, it will be a very good thing. Beyond that, the rest is keeping the ICE in the high efficiency range.

My studies suggest that if the ultracapacitor unit handles surge charge and drain with the traction batteries for sustained loads (aka., hill climb and warm-up,) we'd have an optimum mix.

Bob Wilson

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Bob & Holly Wilson

Opps: .95*.95*.95 = 86% (assuing 95% is maintained, not a trivial problem)

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Bob & Holly Wilson

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