I liked the no haggle price concept-- the car I bought was the same deal as the next guy as the one before me--I didn't drive away thinking, damn, I bet if I had argued another 2 hours I could have ....
No dealer needs to make or be guarenteed 3 to 6k profit on the sale of a vehicle (depending on list price). As far as haggleing, there is none, you tell them what you are will to pay and then tell them is can sit in there driveway or yours and if they do not bite you walk out plain and sinple. They will call you whe they figure out that you are serious. I shout for a dealer to make 300 to 500 bucks on a sales or so because I am not going to pay a extra 3K or more for them to profit from.
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
If it weren't for the plastic panels, what would make my Saturn better than any other car? I've bought a couple of replacement Saturns because they still look pretty good after several years, while the metal paneled cars are all dinged up. Without plastic panels, there is no significant reason for me to choose Saturn over another brand. Buster
Yes just imagine the new saturn owners that discover that door panels and fenders are no longer ding and rust proof and that a 12 year old one will look better than a new one when it gets few years old and has dings and rust from scratches. GM is making a BIG mistake here with a car feature/trademark but they have been making a lot of mistakes on a lot of things so this is no surprize. And people wonder why they are loosing more market share every day. It is all about building them cheaper not better.
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
I really wouldn't be that surprised with his mileage. In addition to my Saturn I have a '95 Fleetwood with the same basic power train and probably an extra 1k pounds of weight. I regularly get 27mg on the hi way running 70 ~ 75. In town runs around 17 so the Saturn sure is kinder to the pocket book there.
Steve B.
The plastic body panels (and the low rpm peak torque) were the major reasons why I purchased two new S1 Saturns. If the S1 wagons had not been cancelled, I would have bought a third. I do not see anything in the Saturn showroom today that I would consider buying. If I am going to buy a standard GM product, I want to be able to purchase my parts from my standard GM parts (wholesale price) dealer. Since GM has also abandoned the fuel efficient mini station wagon, I can see nothing I want from GM (except a new Vette).
The upside is that since GM killed the S1, the used prices have dropped significantly and a used S1 is now a great value and they are available for very low prices and parts are now appearing in the self serve wrecking yards so they will be cheaper to fix. I would advise anyone to purchase the next low mileage SW1 that they find in good condition.
RIP Saturn
I do not need a salesman or dealer's building, taxes, or lights and I do not want to pay for car washing. I would be happy to purchase on the internet and to take delivery as the car rolls off the truck. Dealers make money and sales from unknowledgeable customers and from warranty service and the significant margins on parts, shop labor and leasing.
I would have happily negotiated price, and did not consider the no haggle policy an attraction.
just my .02 YMMV
Do not bank on this too much as I have a friend that is a manager with Advanced Auto and he told me that in 2006 GM patented a LOT of new parts so that they will be dealer only and they add to list every years so buy a new GM will not be much better than a Saturn aftermarket parts wise. I have owned GM's for over 30 years (and jeeps for over 20 years and a few other brands for less but I think that I have about bought my last GM product unless they can really turn their act around.
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Sure they can and most dealers make the money off of used cars and service anywa plus they get hidden factory insentives on sales as I have a freind that is in GM fleet sales at a dealer and he told me that when they are pushing cars at low prices to move them, GM gives them money for doing it to maintain profit for them. I have not paided over 500 bucks over true dealer cost (minus hidden kick backs) for over 25 years now and I have bought 7 new vehicles in that time frame too. If you feel sorry for them and want to bank roll them have at it but not me.
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Bad news, but I was not talking about aftermarket parts or dealers. It has always bugged me that while my genuine GM parts GM dealer is happy to sell me my GM truck and car parts wholesale, they are unable to get Saturn parts through their normal (excellent) GM parts pipeline. Many simple parts that are cheap from GM (like horns and fuel filters) are exorbitant (and usually full retail) from a Saturn dealer. Aftermarket Saturn parts (when available) are much more expensive than equivalent (and widely available) aftermarket GM parts.
I have been a GM (Chevy) fan for most of my life but do not like their reliance on fuel guzzling high margin luxury pickups and SUVs. Their high performance vehicles do get remarkably good fuel economy (when driven conservatively) but they have decided not to produce small, light, super fuel efficient vehicles and have abandoned the mini station wagon which I find is by far the most utilitarian body type combining good performance (because of weight) good handling (because of weight and low CG) and great economy (because of weight) and easy to park (because of size) but still versatile and big enough to pack a significant load (particularly with a roof rack and front mount rack for long loads) and are very comfortable to sleep in.
GM killed the EV1 (and made Saturn carry the bad PR) and has failed to develop hybrid and/or small turbo diesel engines like the VW TDI. If Saturn still made the S series SW but with a small TDI (70 mpg) (or maybe hybrid), I would be a buyer.
YMMV
GM used to have a minimum 3% hold back of invoice price that they would give dealer after sale and 3% of 30K is 900 bucks so even a invoice they are making at least 900 bucks on a 30K sale. They are not starving as long as they can sell something it is when they cannot sell anythiong at all that they feel the squeeze. BTW, my price factoed in hold back too when I got cars 500 or less over true cost.
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Yes they are guarding that info a lot more these days but if you did around on Internet you can find out.
----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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