more Saturn complaints (casting flaws cause cracked heads)

Mister Fact -- Mister Misinformation would be more accurate.

What issues do the 1.9's have ???? I just bought a 95 SL1 with 146,000 and it runs good. What can I look forward to in the future ???

Thanks Brian

runs good.

The main issue, as far as I am aware, is the casting flaw that caused oil and coolant to mix either in the oil crankcase or the coolant system. If your SL has over 100,000 miles, chances are this flaw has either been caught and corrected or (more likely) your engine did not suffer from this flaw. There are other, less serious, problems such as wrong plug gapping and fuel pump but, again, your car has either had them and they've been fixed or your car never had them. I would expect that as long as you ensure your SL gets regular maintenance (especially timing chain replacement), the only problems you can expect are those endemic to all older cars.

it runs good.

and coolant to mix either in the oil

this flaw has either been caught and

other, less serious, problems such as

they've been fixed or your car never had

maintenance (especially timing chain replacement),

Does the timing chain break ???? I would figure a chain would last the life of the car, unlike belts.......

Brian

A timing CHAIN is made up of a few 100 metal links that rub and rotate against each other. They are designed to do this and oil is continuously applied. But over time they will wear gradually and play will develop. Modern (last 20 years) engines are designed to deal with a bit of this play but at some point they need to be replaced. If they break bad things can happen.

As to lasting the life of the car, when we drove cars 100K miles or less, well they usually did. (A 10 year old car with 100K miles in the 60s was usually a clunker worth little more than scrap.) I own cars with 210K, 135K, and 190K miles on them. "Life" has a new meaning than in days of old.

David Ross

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

it runs good.

and coolant to mix either in the oil

are this flaw has either been caught and

are other, less serious, problems such as

they've been fixed or your car never had

maintenance (especially timing chain replacement),

of the car, unlike

It's not a scheduled maintenance item like a belt, but it doesn't last forever. Chain breakage has been a problem for some owners due to problems with the timing chain tensioner system. Clean oil is essential for the timing chain tensioner on older Saturns to work properly.

Generally you should replace the chain and the tensioner every 100,000 miles. If you have a 1995 with 146K miles then chances are the previous owner already replaced the chain once.

Judging from this thread, at least a couple of people still are drinking it. BTW, it's Kool-Aid. Still, I think that Misterfact should direct his energy to more worthwhile projects. Trying to convince people to not buy Saturns based on what happened with the casting flaw so many years ago, is not going to be a very productive use of his time.

I haven't seen any new Saturns around my area. The dealership near me closed up shop several years ago, and I think people are reluctant to buy vehicles when there is no dealer close by. The current Saturns are probably no worse than other GM vehicles, but other than trucks, who's buying anything from GM? The local GM (Chevy) dealer in my town closed up unexpectedly one day, and eventually they sold the building and a huge Whole Foods went in. In March 2008, Toyota sold 40,487 Camrys, and Saturn sold 6,241 Auras, and that was a 12.9% increase for Saturn.

each other. They are designed to do this and oil is continuously applied. But over time they will wear gradually and play will develop. Modern (last 20 years) engines are designed to deal with a bit of this play but at some point they need to be replaced. If they break bad things can happen.

they usually did. (A 10 year old car with 100K miles in the 60s was usually a clunker worth little more than scrap.) I own cars with 210K, 135K, and 190K miles on them. "Life" has a new meaning than in days of old.

Unlike a belt, a chain very likely give you fair warning that it is about to fail. Excessive noise and engine performance will appear. My experience with chains is that a well lubricated chain will out last the car. (Especially where roads are salted.) The people who generally have problems didn't do proper oil changes. Yes the chains on S-series engines do last more than 200k miles. Its been discussed here in the past.

it runs good.

and coolant to mix either in the oil

are this flaw has either been caught and

are other, less serious, problems such as

they've been fixed or your car never had

maintenance (especially timing chain replacement),

I dont believe 95' SOHC engines were effected by casting flaws. Only 3-4 years were effected. This is something that Misterhidethefacts wont ever mention...

I do not completely disagree with the replies DLR or SMS, but feel that timing chain replacement is not necessary as preventative maintenance on an engine that receives regular changes of good quality oil. I agree that excessively extended oil change intervals can lead to tensioner seizure and loose chains that can wear on the chain case and that inadequate lubrication can accelerate chain wear. IMHO the likelihood of catastrophic failure of the chain is relatively slight on an engine that has received regular oil changes. IMHO a loose chain caused by wear or tensioner failure will be audible long before failure but does require careful listening as part of operational maintenance. I would change the chain any time the head needs to be removed.

Just my .02 YMMV

Distortion #1. Consumers seldom even know what their vehicle has. No one can cite a dealer ever telling them that. Once again Scharf pulls fantasies out of his ass.

More like the anecdotes of Scharfy boy.

And when they do they come on here and bitch about an upsale and then you and trolls like you perpetuate this information as a "bad experience"...

Yes thats why I've seen belts fail with 30k-60k miles on these "newer engines". Clearly you never worked in a car shop.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Often cost the same if not more. You doubt me? Simply research the NSX. The cost and effort of replacing a S-series saturn timing chain is on par with the timing belt replacement of most 4 cylinder Hondas or Toyotas. I speak from 1st hand experience, do you?

And of course you're still wrong.

Yes thats what I want... Manufactures going the 'cheap' route.

IMHO, operation & driving style makes a huge differece in engine longevity. Giving an engine a short idle (and low RPM operation for the first few minutes until temperature normalizes) after startup allows oil to circulate fully and helps to avoid scuffing and premature wear. Avoiding high RPM (and 'spirited')operation will result in lower stresses and loadings on all engine parts. IMHO, wear on all engine components is significantly higher at 4,000 RPM than at 3,000 (and much much higher at 5,000). IMHO, S series saturns make their best volumetric efficiency, and fuel ecconomy / HP produced at 2,400 RPM and will give their best and longest service if they are opperated as close to this speed as much as possible..

One would think that all API certified oils should have similar quality and performance, but IMHE they just don't. I keep careful records of oil consumption and have noted significant variation in consumption rates with different brands, and further that while price is often an predictor of consumption rate, some top price and name brand oils have relatively poorer performance. Good record keeping is necessary to determine the brands that your engine likes the best. Of course it is worth noting that the by far the worst performing oil that will cause the fastest and most expensive repair bill is the 'low level on dipstick'.

No mechanical component lasts forever, but gentle operation and careful observation to sounds combined with regular maintenance and oil changes will significantly increase service life. Maintenance is always a compromise between smaller (but still very expensive) repairs before failure vs. possible larger repairs later. In general I belong to the 'drive it until it breaks' school of thought as this prevents performing a lot of unnecessary repair, however when repairs are necessary I like to repair or recondition everything at that time. Replacing a timing chain is a lot of work and by the time the replacement is necessary ISTM that the head will probably benefit from a valve regrind and new valve guides and while the head is off it is not that much more work to drop the pan and do the rings and roll in new bearings. If a new clutch is needed then this may be a good time to do all the engine work while the engine is out.

Buying a used car is always a crap shoot as there is seldom any complete record of maintenance and the young seller always claims to be a careful and mature driver who never abused the car or drove it in an overly 'spirited' manner. All that a new owner can do is to immediately change all fluids (particularly coolant and transmission), perform all maintenance on a regular schedule and then monitor (and record carefully)performance (and sounds), operate gently and hope for the best. It is always easier to get long service life from a machine that is purchased new and maintained and operated carefully throughout its service life.

ok, I admit that I am "clearly lying" about everything except that you are a troll and not a very nice person. Another fine example of why never to feed a troll. Ciao!

it runs good.

and coolant to mix either in the oil

are this flaw has either been caught and

are other, less serious, problems such as

they've been fixed or your car never

maintenance (especially timing chain

That's what Saturn *admitted* to and played in the press. According to my (since departed) Saturn dealer service manager, the problem was believed to have been corrected in the middle of the year *following* the upper range of publicized years. My 1999 SL had the symptoms and although they didn't admit to it being caused by a casting flaw and despite my vehicle being beyond the warrantee period, Saturn Division covered the parts costs (more than 1/2 of the total on a retail price basis).

Shame you dont hide your EPIDEMIC stupidity.

Trolls like you shouldnt go around making such offers.

In a year? Wow caught red handed in another lie. In another post you made about 4 years ago you said it broke after 2 1/2 years. (Which sounds typical for any car in Michigan.) Oh and here is your quote:

half years after new But what else would we expect from a perpetual liar such as yourself. If you're going to make stuff up at least be consistant about it. I guess its easy to forget such things when you cant even consistently spell your last name.

IMHE this is correct.

I have not noticed this problem, but have not checked this location for corrosion.

I have yet to have any vehicle that did not have some problem.

I have a 1996 SOHC that was from the series with several head casting flaw problems but have not as yet experienced any problem and can only think that I got lucky. I learned of the possible problem just as the regular warranty was ending and had an oil and coolant lab analysis done to check for coolant/oil mixing both as the regular warranty and the extended head replacement period were ending but found no problem. I now have almost 200k miles on the engine with no serious problems. I do not expect any manufacturer to do a 100% replacement on a component that has lasted for a substantial portion of its expected service life. Saturn did offer a generous extended warranty to cover this head casting flaw. At this point I would not expect any help from Saturn if I have a head problem nor would I take it to a Saturn dealer if a repair was required.

Good luck, but get over it.

Just like (and no worse than) every other manufacturer IMHE. There are unflattering words that describe people who trust car dealers.

Good luck, but get over it.

I own *two* Saturns, and the muffler isn't "ready to fall off" of either one.

Dissimilar-metals corrosion between aluminum and steel corrodes the *steel*, not the aluminum. If you're going to make up stories, at least try to make them a tiny bit convincing. When your tall tales contradict scientific fact, you expose yourself as a liar and a fool.

Not a problem on *my* Saturns. Wonder why you have so much trouble with yours?

I have seen severe corrosion of aluminum caused by steel bolts touching aluminum combined with lots of road salt. You may be correct regarding the scientific theory of steel corroding electrically but IMHE the aluminum is usually consumed totally long before the steel. Good practice uses a thin plastic washer or sheet under a steel washer under the bolt head and nut.

Just my .02