OT Safely stopping vehicles trying to run check-points

It was very interesting Karl. Maybe they can use the technology in LA, and stop all the televised car chases.

Perhaps Karl, "We need to stop people without killing them" because of the culture WE grew up in. If the tables were reversed, WE would get whacked without a second thought.

OTH A 120mm Cannon (mounted on an M1A1) makes an excellent traffic stopper.

Hell > Lee Aanderud wrote:

Yeah, but then Alex and Obidobi put in their two cents regarding the war in Iraq...

Lee

I wonder how many of those chases happen because they televise them? I must admit that I have seen one (transferring back during ads on the show I was watching)involving an 18-wheeler that lasted over two hours with speeds reaching 65 MPH that ended when the unaware driver reached his destintion and headed for the crapper.. More replays that a Super Bowl. (Mistakenly reported as a stolen rig, IYMK)

Karl

Ya know - it's a pretty important topic.

Because we all seem to give a s*it, we all chime in. Just that some of is diametrically opposed politically, so we get conflict.

That conflict would be more tolerable if we would all try to avoid attacking the poster, instead focusing on the position the poster espouses.

I have no illusions that we are all friends, but we all share several common interests.

Most of us are US citizens with a large Canadian contingent. Most of us use our real names We all like studebakers.

Here's a very interesting (conservative / "rightwing" ) presentation.

I polished my Studebaker today.

Mark (it's an ugly world in which we live) Dunning

Lee, revisionist history already?

Jeff started this when he stated that the solution was not the need for a safe way to stop the vehicles, but simply and I quote " to blow the crap out of the vehicle that passes the checkpoint"

Alex and I were simply pointing out the problem with Jeffies attitude.

(btw oujddivß or oudeis means 'nobody' in biblical greek, I answer to that as well)

Paul D.

Lee Aanderud wrote:

There you guys go again... Paul....Use the whole quote and not just the part that tickles your fancy...

(quote) Personally, I think the way to save the most lives (as the closing quote in the article states) is to blow the crap out of the vehicle that passes the checkpoint. There will probably only be one person in the vehicle. Sacrifice the one willing vehicle occupant, who is willing to die anyways, for the potential saving of everyone he was trying to kill. (end quote)

It was at that point that you two interjected your opinions on the regional conflict/war.

And you also conveniently excluded the caveat: (quote) That counts for all checkpoints in all countries. Won't take very many episodes for the understanding of 'stop here' means... (end quote)

As far as commenting on 'my' attitude.... Have at it. When the s*it hits the fan, I'll live longer at the checkpoint.... Jeff

"Oujdeivß" wrote...

MAYBE, (a term that will stand up in court anywhere in the world) he was trying to blow up soldiers at the checkpoint. If these people do not know it is the US military, they're even more ignorant than you are... it's not like there is a broken down vehicle along side of the road with a couple guys standing in the street holding weapons stopping these vehicles. How about giving the military a little benefit rather than making up excuses for the people running the roadblocks.

Alex, using your logic, now I have an excuse to run red lights around town and not stop when cops try and pull me over now. You truely are ignorant... and prove it everytime you open your mouth or start typing.

Lee

Lee, you do know the insurgents dress in uniforms, and set up check points to kidnap, torture and kill do you not ? The simple fact is innocent civilians are being killed for what ever reason. The discussion started with solutions to the "Kill them all and let God sort out the guilty" solution for those that don't stop. BTW, you may disagree with Alex or anyones opinions, but to label them "ignorant" simply because they disagree is at the very least wrong headed and a piss poor debate tactic.

Lee Aanderud wrote:

And the only point that my original post made was that they (whoever they are) should stop at a checkpoint (wherever it is). If you are in a war zone and you run a checkpoint, the rules of engagement were just broken. Doesn't really matter who you stuffed into the car. Are your passengers innocent? Could be... That won't stop the car bomb from exploding, but it might stop it from exploding at the designated target. Then again, as you say JP...If it is insurgents dressing as legit police/military, it goes to prove the point that there is indeed a need for helping these people out to stop this type of terrorist tactic. I respect the opinions of others and reserve the right to disagree and express my own. All I was saying is that they should stop at a checkpoint and not put the checkpoint people on a Catch22 to protect themselves, or those they are charged with protecting. Wherever that may be. Jeff

"John Poulos" wrote...

Yes John, I've heard and read stories about insurgents dressing as US soldiers... I'm not exactly living in a box. I've also heard many stories of criminals dressing up as cops in this country... does that mean I have a legitimate right to not obey the rules when being pulled over? Maybe next time I get pulled over I'll just take off and see what happens. If I put a cop in harms way, I deserve to get my ass shot full of lead. How the f*ck are we supposed to turn the country back over to them when every citizen decides not to obey the laws of the land? I guess it's okay to disregard any and every official... because we don't know if they're legitimate or not. I'd be interested in findng out what percentage of checkpoint stops are legitimate vs. those set up by insurgents. Probably a lot less than you and Alex want me to believe.

I do disagree with Alex on just about every point... and I get tired of his stupidity. Piss poor debate tactic or not, but who's "debating"? Debating requires respect of the other party. He's still an idiot who spouts off ignorance at every given chance. What the hell is "wrong headed"?

Lee

Nice try Lee, but you show your own ignorance at every turn. You have no place talking about respect of the other party when you routinely call other idiots. I give rational responses and back them up with facts.

John, I've got a hypothetical situation for you. You're a US soldier standing guard at a checkpoint. An unidentified vehicle approaches and disobey's all all orders to stop. You've got about three seconds before the vehicle breeches your checkpoint. What do you do?

A) Open fire B) Step in front of the vehicle and hope he doesn't run your ass over C) Smile and wave as the vehicle passes D) Other (please explain)

If it takes more than three seconds to answer, the vehicle as passed through your checkpoint and now the results of the vehicle not being checked is on your ass.

What did you do in Vietnam when an unidentified boat approached your ship? Remember the USS Cole.

Lee

Are you saying the police were chasing the 18 wheeler for 2 hours and the driver of the 18 wheeler never knew it until after he parked the rig? That's hard to believe. Can someone check this out in snopes er sumpin?

That's just the point!! I do picture that and the many casualties listed in the paper day after day. If the idiot f****ng chicken hawks you put into power in Washington had "pictured that" they would not have gotten us into Iraq in the first place. But since they almost all skipped out on Vietnam, they did not learn the lessons that should have been learned. About my retirement, you are wrong there also. The taxpayers pay less than half of my retirement. I contributed over half the money in my retirements account. The county was supposed to match that fund. When the stock market did well and the fund was growing, they held back on their contributions. About the "fighting them over here" debate, you know full well that the people telling that lie meant the commies would be over here with an army. Fantasies about how they supposedly have taken over our government are just that, fantasies to keep from having to admit you fell for the lie. And tell me, just exactly what "individual rights and property rights" are being taken away by commies in our government?

"Jeff Rice" wrote in message news:45701b9f$0$10031$ snipped-for-privacy@free.teranews.com...

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You wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in that big dumb head of yours.

Lee

Jeff, as usual, a reasonable reply, but just to amplify the " Doesn't really matter who you stuffed into the car." comment. Maybe the father of the family of five stuffed into the car was ignorant, but we seem to agree that there is should be a better way to stop him other then killing him and his family. Even if some don't feel any remorse for killing the innocent, the troops that saw the result may well feel it.

In my own limited experience, I still have memories of a sort of a check point between North and South Vietnam. Any boat near the border was a "weblic" a.k.a. water borne logistics craft. The theory was that such boats were running supplies south to the VC and I'm sure many were. If you were in a boat near the coast you were on a weblic and it was our job on my cruiser to stop you. We'd take them out with our 3 inch small guns from a few 1000 yards and keep count of the weblics destroyed. For reasons unknown top me, we started to approach along side to inspect the "weblics" before sinking them and I got to see the "Water born logistics craft" on occasion. One time we picked up two survivors from a damaged weblic ( maybe a 24 foot wooden fishing boat with a old lady and maybe a 12 year old with a basket of fish) The kid actually s*it his pants on the sick bay table from fear. I'm sure he never seen a boat bigger then maybe 40 feet, and a 850 foot cruiser was a bit more then he could handle. The point is that although granny and the kid were "ignorant" for being hungry enough to fish near the border, we figured out a safe way to do the mission without just blowing them out of the water. We could do it if needed with a 50 caliber from the bridge, saving the cost of a

Thanks, you just made our point. If you are in the car with your family and try to run a sobriety check point set up by the cops should the cops be able to stop you with automatic weapons fire, killing you, the wife,

Lee Aanderud wrote:

B) Step in front of the vehicle and hope he doesn't run your ass over

Given no other choices, kill them all and hope they are bad guys, but a Safely stopping vehicles trying to run check-points invention would be nice, I choose D.

We killed them all for a few months, then came closer to wooden fishing boats with a ship with 8 inch thick armor plate as another way of safely stopping boats trying to run check-points. (See earlier post)

I didn't make any of your points. Why would I be running a sobriety check point if I didn't have anything to hide. If I'm running, the police should be able to disable my vehicle at whatever costs... running a sobriety checkpoint in South Carolina and running a military checkpoint in Iraq are like comparing apples to oranges. If I run a sobriety checkpoint, I'm probably not going to be doing it in a vehicle full of explosives. I hope you're smart enough to realize that. These people running checkpoints aren't all families out on a Sunday drive, many of them are loaded with explosives.... under your solution, we should let them approach out soldiers so their kill ratio can go even higher. Would you like your kid standing guard at this checkpoint to have the disobeying vehicle disabled at all costs at 100 yards or detonated as he's sticking his head in the driver's window? It's amazing how many people can't see the obvious.

Lee