OT Safely stopping vehicles trying to run check-points

No, I can't say that I have experienced exactly the same situations as our troops are facing in Iraq. Do ya think I served 30 years as a cop, and never experienced this scenerio?:

You would be wrong, sir.

Here in America, in civilian terms, these are called road blocks. I have been involved with many, probably half of which the driver ran through. In one local case, a rookie police officer shot and killed the driver, a meth dealer, in the act of attempting to elude police. That was the end of the officer's short career, and life as he knew it. But, this was an American, shot by a civilian police officer.

While the rules are different... (police are required to give the offender an "out," we cannot establish a complete roadblock.) The experience is very much the same, I'm pretty sure.

In a perfect world, given time to plan and establish security plans, you are exactly correct. In the real world, sometimes check points have to be established quickly, using what you have to work with.

BTW, Jerry is one of my friends, and does not fall in the dim-wit catagory. Sorry I took yer head off, Jerry, but we all know how keyboarding lacks when it comes to communication.

Dave Lester

Another confusion factor, not yet mentioned, is that at times cars coming to checkpoints may be driven by "innocent" people with a remote-control bomb strapped to them that will be set off if they stop short or change path, or with the family of the driver being held captive and to be painfully killed if the driver does not do as told.

In the two years between the death of my wife and my return to the US, I had a lot of time and resources to study terrorism and terrorists methods - and what motivates them. (The IRA was active in England at that time and one was not surprised to awake to the news that there had been another bomb.) When I got back to the US, I saw a dog sniffing luggage at the Minn airport and thought, "I bet that dog is sniffing out drugs and wouln't recognize a bomb if it tripped on it." (Obviously,there was no point in asking the handler.) During previous visits, I had pointed out our failings along this line and reaction was more like I was the threat rather than doing something about it. Many administrations up to WTC2 are to blame. Going into this would be book length. (The earliest act of terrorism I remember in the US was in the early-1950s.) Others familiar with terrorism with whom I have spoken have had the same feelings. With this in mind, perhaps you will see Lee's comments in a less "looney" light. (You may remember some comments from him that do fit the bill, though.)

Karl

Karl

How would I know... I knew cops back in ND who never had to pull their gun in 30 years on the job. My hometown cop didn't even carry a gun 90% of the time he was on duty.

How so, are you saying that our soldiers should allow vehicles to breech the checkpoints? In doing so would probably require a chase. If you've got a handful of soldiers manning the checkpoint, do you really want 50% leaving to chase down a guy scared of stopping and leaving the other 50% to defend the checkpoint? The enemy then has effectively elimated 50% of our defense system. Then what happens to the checkpoint? It would take about 20 minutes for the enemy to figure that one out... you send a decoy through and then send the truck full of explosives through after the chase moves out . I think there has already been soldiers killed using this strategy. The point is to check every vehicle that goes through, not cut and run after every stray vehicle.

I'd label it, "a criminal shot by a police officer". I'm not arguing that a person's life wouldn't change after killing another human being, but that's a risk one takes in that career. I'm sure you have to be willing and able to do that if the situation requires it.

What is the reasoning behind a roadblock if you have to allow a way out for the offender? Are you supposed to wave at the guy as he drives through it too??? Sounds like something a defense lawyer got pushed through the court system. In Iraq/Afghanistan, nobody is innocent until proven guilty... if they're running rolling bombs through you have to treat every vehicle as a suspected bomb vehicle.

Exactly, which is what I was trying to explain... stagger vehicles in the lanes, ditches, whatever. I meant the concrete barriers as an example of how to lay them out... otherwise you'd have to have a truck and crane at every checkpoint.

You're from Aladambama, huh? Maybe we need to take a trip.... Here's a guy that can help us all

"jerrystudebaker" wrote...

I don't think so.

If so, you've faced civilian vehicles with suicide bombers?

If so, You've faced vehicles that look exactly like other vehicles with respect to occupants?

If so, during patrols, you run a good risk of encountering IED's?

If so, you've faced youngsters formally trained to take you out?

I don't think so

Those drivers did not have a ton of explosives and in all probability would not have considered sacrificing their life for (bogus) religious reasons.

I don't think so.

JT