01 outback valve cover gasket failure :-\

On my 2001 2.5L Outback, I had a CEL with misfire on #2 with similar goofy engine performance; turned out to be caused by leaky seals (not the valve cover gasket itself) that were causing oil to get on the wires. I could wipe the wire clean, and it would be fine for about a mile, until new leaked oil made it perform poorly again.

Repair was to replace the seals on both sides (similar problem there; less severe); no more misfires. Apparently this is common on Subies.

About 5000 miles later I had the head gasket seepage problem which was covered under Subaru's extended warranty. I think it was unrelated to the leaky seals.

Oil does NOT saturate wire,Neoprene/rubber and its seal around the shaft of the ceramic stops Arc-over. The oil leak is not the cause of your misfire. The valve cover gasket has failed due to CHEAP workmanship and/or material. Coils do not fail due to arc-over or dead shorts.Look at it this way, the plug gap is .030..the arc-over is over .250 or better and that's IF the plug doesn't fire. You have other problems. The error code for the catalyst is normal, you are throwing raw gas at it, at least you know it works. Keep driving it and you WILL kill it, at the very least overheat it (Meltdown). Increased backpressure did not kill the valve cover gaskets, anymore than a bad wheel bearing would. You wont see coolant weep if its going into #2, but it will cause a misfire..... Welcome to Subaru hell.....also known as the WONDERFUL 2.5L engine.Get used to holes in your wallet, check engine lights on a lot and poor drivability.This is a "PIG" of a engine design. You should be mad as hell with Subaru.

At that mileage you may very well need your first front O2 sensor. Not uncommon on any modern vehicle. And I have read of folks needing the 'tube'/whatever gaskets replaced in the valve covers. No, it probably won't be cheap.

Carl

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the experience. What do these trouble-prone seals seal? I'm having trouble picturing them. Crank and cam seals?

-- Todd H.

So the fact that this particular cylinder that misfired had quite a bit of oil on it is coincidence?

That's good.

"it" being the catalytic converter?

Any interdependency between this oil leakage and other problems though?

-- Todd H.

The diagnostic tests have been completed. 107,800 on the odometer.

Catalytic converter code that came and went away a while ago... and the annoying rattle that was bugging me are all about a failing plugged up cat. It's overheating because it's falling apart and restricted.

This added heat is though perhaps to have hastened the demise of seals in the engine. The valve cover gasket is presumed gone. An extended test of the head gasket has revealed a breach, though not a huge one. Something about a fluid test with some colored stuff, took 2 hours to change in a 4hr test.

So looks like rebuilt heads in my future. Cost est ~$1800.

I'm pissed of course.

Will be calling Subaru tomorrow and inquiring about my magically disintegrating engine magically 2 oil changes after warranty expires.

Anyone have success and what factors help getting them to do the right thing here?

If the 'zone manager' whoever doesn't seem to want to cover all of it - sometimes they will cover the labor if you buy the parts.

You need to really decide BEFORE you meet witha anyone what you need from them to be 'satisfied'. You're likely never gonna buy a Subaru again - though I bought another Honda after having an early catastrophic failure in a '78 - but what you think is the 'right' thing for them to do. I assume you got good service from the vehicle until now? Anyway, what's a 'reasonable' outcome here. Then stick to your decision. Ask for names and the names of their immediate supervisors. Then get THAT guy's boss's name if needed. Folks who threaten legal action usually never follow through - but if that seems required, just ask for a contact in their legal dept. and hand that info to your lawyer.

I HAVE read of folks getting 'good faith' coverage on major problems just over the warranty period.

good luck

Carl

If it was coolant in #2 cylinder..that was your misfire, the raw gas,(coolant DOES burn). This will drive the cat converter and O2 sensors crazy. Leaking valve covers are a byproduct. Engine heat should not have killed them.. You have a right to be totally pissed off, this engine is a known "problem child".

I read some boards and call 800 SUBARU3 to talk to their case folks and of course they want it at a subaru dealer to dx the car, for which now there are state mandated tear-down costs they'll hit me with to do I'm sure. in the end they may offer me free labor and hit me with the crap subaru parts charge, and I may end up with more than $1800 going to Subaru and I'll still have that lousy assed subaru head gasket design in my engine rather than a 3rd party head gasket that stands a chance of holding up. The head gasket breach is not huge and my car isn't currently overheating though it is higher than normal, so I'm unsure of how much Subaru will be willing to assist with this. I highly doubt they'll replace my cat, seals and head gasket all on their nickel.

Lousy situation to be in, I'd say.

I'd much rather pay my mechanic than Subaru, and I'm interested in a fix that has minimal chance of recurring which means 3rd party head gasket, and the only Subaru dealer I'd trust with the work is exceedingly inconvenient to get to.

Yee hah.

Thanks all for the comiseration and advice. If the Subaru dealer near me actually employed any techs over the age of 30, and I had more time to shuttle my car around, I might spin the Subaru wheel of fortune, to see what they'd offer, but might end up right back at my mechanic anyway. What's so lame is that magically this stuff all started happening right after my 100k 0 deductible extended warranty expired! Grrr....

-- Todd H.

Well consider that ANY misfire will overheat the catalyst. At the very least it will melt down and clog, worst case a fire can result. I have seen Cats glow dull red when they get fuel thrown down the pipe. That's a LOT of heat under the car. I strongly advise to NOT drive it if it's not hitting on all holes....

Just something to think about:

Do you really expect to keep this car beyond ANOTHER 100k miles? If not, it shouldn't matter to you wether the new gasket is a genuine Subaru or a 3rd party. That was my logic when I just paid to get my viscous coupling replaced. What if I only get another 140k kms out of this one? Not too concerned as I probably won't have the car that long anyway.

Sucks though. I found a little oil on my spark plug wires almost 50k kms ago, but nothing came out of it. I checked again another time and it didn't seem to be oily this time. I was planning on waiting until my timing belt change, but the tech told me it wouldn't save any labour to wait until then.

Chico

No worries.

It's not goin anywhere until its heads are rebuilt with new head gasket and all those fun seals, and a new cat installed. I guess that's part of modicum of feel good math I'm doin on this $1800 experience!

Beats the $2600 we started with before my mechanic tried a different parts supplier, decided against remanufactured heads deciding instead to do the rebuild himself and flat rated some items for me that he has a history of gettin done in under book hours.

Let's hope she's a happy car on Friday.

-- Todd H.

From what I've been reading, you can't necessarily expect a Subaru replaced head gasket to go another 100k is part of the happy justification I'm trying to sell myself. :-)

It's a good point of consideration.

If I had any 100% confidence Subaru would take care 100% of the repair if I take it from the mechanic I like all the way over to em and tear my engine apart and then make a decision, then I'd probably do that.

I was stuck with moderate confidence and leaning to the likely event they'd say the head gasket wasn't leaking badly enough to take too much responsibilitity, they'd have my car in pieces and if I wanted it back unfixed they'd still hit me with a tear down fee, meanwhile it's

Lets Subaru off the hook which doesn't make me happy though.

I'm under the delusion if I fix this, then I might get another 100k out of the car with relatively little drama.

-- Todd H.

Are the valve cover bolts loose?

VF

Hey Todd,

Curious folks want to know what happened. Did you get it fixed? What was the problem?

Valve cover gasket failed, catalytic converter blocked, internal head gasket leak.

My heads rebuilt and new head gaskets along with new cat for $1800 (independent mechanic) seemed like a deal. I think Subaru dealers want $1900 for a head gasket alone (dunno if it involves rebuilding the heads and their associated seals or not).

Plus, I wanted an aftermarket head gasket, which rolling the dice at the Subaru dealer to see if they'd cover me at 107k for an internal leak would never have gotten me.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

Out of curiosity, regarding the head gasket issue, could you tell what your driving habits were? Most miles were highway, or city? Frequent start-ups? Lead foot perhaps, or were you generally gentle with the revs. I am very interested whether the car was garaged, and was the coolant changed regularly, and what kind of gas were you using. Do you yourself have any hint as to what might have contributed to the early failure. Low on oil incident perhaps etc. Anything?

I blew my camshaft seals on a very old Hyundai last year when I decided to put straight 60 weight oil in it, to help it pass emissions testing. It was stupid of me, but it worked several years in a row before, and I always quickly switched back to normal viscosity oil afterwards. Well, several cans of sealant later and the leak is under control, ...kind of.

M.J.

I'm led to conclude only:

Lousy design with known problems, and now I know why Consumer Reports has a big black dot for engine mechanical in the 2001 column in the used car guide for teh 2.5L Outback. My survey to them when I submit it this year may make it blacker.

Never. Bought the car new. I'm an anal retentive engineer who was reluctant to spend that much on a new car, so it was babied. Oil changed every 3k-5k, 5w30 MObil full synthetic often, though I'm changing to 10w30 on the advice of my mechanic. Factory filters every time. I am not an aggressive driver--married guy with a kid. Car rather dutifully maintained with all scheduled maintenance (my 90k service I had done a little late) and I was into the dealer getting the coolant conditioner installed within a week of receiving the recall notice way back when. Successive coolant changes included the conditioner. I had a 100k 0deductible extended warranty and had no hints of problems until after 105k magically.

Most mileage was highway. I do have frequent short trips here lately, but that's only in the past year. I do not have a daily commute. The car was always garaged through its entire lifespan.

The only possible negative is that I I use 87 octane fuel and don't obsess about who sells it to me. Most gas this car used over its life was from Citgo. In the past year or so, Clark and Amoco.

The head gasket failure was not a dramatic event. It was evidently a small internal leak discovered on diagnostic after discovery of a valve cover gasket oil leak that was contributing to cylinder 2 misfires. During the diagnostic where a dye is involved and circulated through the cooland system, the color change took 2 hours out of the 4 allotted for the test. In large breaches, the color change evidently occurs very quickly.

In hind sight, my advice to other owners is to be very cognizant of coolant usage. I recall refilling my coolant refill bottle once around 95k and not thinking much of it. Knowing what I know now, I'd have had it into the dealer demanding explanation as to why my car was using coolant.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

Thanks for your reply and good advice.

No doubt it is a blunder on Subaru's part. Good luck with the new head gasket and please have a look at the thread titled "2008 Coolant Conditioner." I mention there several things that I believe may help, at least a bit, to avoid this problem.

M.J.