Buying a new 2004 OBW: what are folks paying?

Thanks, but that wasn't the question. I wanted actual on-the-street info. Edmunds is good, to a degree, but when I bought my car their TMV was $1500-2000 more than I paid.

I negotiated $99 over invoice at Colonial Subaru/VW in Feasterville. So, they made the dealer holdback plus $99. They probably broke even on the trade-in (99 Camry with 110K miles).

I bought an L.L. Bean last week. After $1,500 in rebates, it came to $1,000 under invoice. If you have a trade in, but sure to know what it's worth. The new car price doesn't mean much if the dealer cheats you on the trade in.

Look For an ad car go to deaaler and have them match it. Some will some wont. I got my 2004 OBW for under invoice

Colonial is where I bought my last two Outbacks! I've shopped around a lot, and they usually can beat the price. They gave me a good price on the 2003, but I think lowballed me a bit on my 2001 trade. Anyway, I bought my 2001 (in 2001) for $20,500, and my 2003 (in 2003) for $20,300. $200 less two years later isn't too bad, I think.

It's very hard to know if you are getting a good price on a trade-in, despite all of the info available on the web. My brother used to sell cars (new and used), so he's given me some inside info. I had gotten a trade-in value from several sources on the web (kbb, Edmond's, etc.), but he said they were all too high considering the mileage to age ratio (110K miles on a '99). He gave a me the highest price he thought I could get for the car, and that's what they offered...

The problem is that on cars over 100K miles, the dealers can't sell them- they have to take them to auction and get whatever they can for them- so it's hard for them to give you a lot for them even if they want to. They just don't know what they will get. I could have gotten much more if I had sold it privately, but I hate the process so much, I'd rather take the loss.

About a year ago I read in the Washington Post (Times(?)) that an "honest" dealer told the reporter:

He figures he'll need to spend $6-700 on the trade-in before he can sell it. Then he want to make a 12-13% profit on it.

I assume he work that out backwords starting with the avg. retail value...