I have a 2000 Subaru Outback that developed coolant leaks at Headgaskets leaked at 20,000, 46,000 and the last one at 63,000 miles. I had the tsb done with the additive but it's done no good. Are there any good NJ dealers out there that anyone can recommend? I'm talking to a lawyer to see if there's anything I can do. Are there enough of us that we can get a class action started or something? I'm desperate and just want Subaru to fix this mess. Please email me if you've had any luck if getting this fixed or or any luck with the lemon law or want to join a class action. Something has to be done. Help!
Good luck. My Mercury Sable had leaking head gaskets as well, and they eventually blew, and despite the fact that it was very, very common on those cars, there was never any recall. Nor was there one on the horrid transmission either.
Before doing anything check with a Subaru dealer -- the headgasket should be covered by Subaru under an extended warranty for this problem. Just two weeks ago, my wife's 2000 Outback (70,000 miles) began to leak oil suddenly. I took it to my local Subaru dealer here in Indianapolis and the dealer replaced the headgasket. According to this dealer, Subaru is covering blown headgaskets under an extended warranty program for up to 200,00 miles. There was no charge for my wife's car.
Blown headgaskets apparently are a known problem area for the 2.5 l. Subaru engine, but I was very pleased by how the problem was handled. As soon as the dealer called me and explained the problem, he said it would be coverd under the warranty. It cost me nothing and I even got an oil change and new coolant in the deal.
This was the first repair on her Outback in almost five years other than normal maintenance. I have been pleased with all four of the Subaru's that we have owned. I currently drive a '92 Subaru SVX with
145,000 miles. Our two previous Subies went over 100,000 miles with few repairs -- we gave our 95 Legacy to our son and it now has over
150,000 miles on it. I will be definitely be considering another Subaru when I'm in the market for a new car.
Good luck!
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You could write your Congressperson, asking for a repeal of all the smog laws so we can go back to all iron engines that run at 180 deg F!
Only being about half facetious here. From the stories I hear about leaking/blown headgaskets on SO MANY makes today, it sounds like nobody's managed to tame the problem. It's more complex than this, but the short answer is the combination of extremely light alloy heads and very high operating temps being used for smog purposes tends to allow the heads to "move" and warp quite easily, creating the problems.
Sounds like you'd do well to have a qualified mechanic look the heads over, checking for cracks and warpage. My machine shop owner friend says a majority of heads respond well to being surfaced after the initial headgasket problem and then the engine's far more reliable and long lived. An experiment with a population of one is hardly valid, but in my case, he was right on a 4 cyl Toyota... I haven't heard similar experiences from Subie owners. If the gasket's being replaced and the head's not "flat," it's probably a waste of money and time to keep doing the replacement thing. So don't give up on trying to obtain satisfaction from Subaru!
BTW, it's not clear to me at all how bad the problem is. I was talking to the guy next door that owns an auto repair shop. He works on Subaru's and a) has never seen a blown head gasket and b) has not seen any mention of the problem in his subscription tech repair database.
I know that this doesn't make a person feel any better that has a problem.
The more I hear of the problem, the more I suspect air in coolant system as the original cause.
I've been tempted to come up with a small add-on circuit board that would blink the CEL lamp if the coolant temp went more than about 20% above normal.
Mmmm... I've actually read it, it's 100,000 miles. Also if I read Alan's post correctly, he bought the vehicle because he REQUIRES it for transporatation, not to leave in the shop every 21k miles for the same problem, regardless of some empty warranty promise, be it infinite.
I'm a fan of Subaru... all the more reason I'll hold them responsible to maintain a high standard.
I agree with Danny and Ed: a warranty's only as good as those who service it. A lifetime warranty, serviced by an incompetent shop, isn't worth the paper it's written on. OTOH, a competent shop that does the job right first time is worth its weight in gold. The OP needs to do as Danny suggests and hold these folks to a higher standard, be they independents or dealers.
Some people are just penny wise pound foolish. They think they save a couple bucks by not going to the dealer but then the monkey who does the work does it wrong and it takes more time and grief to correct it. Sure a timing belt change is expensive anywhere (what happened to timing chains?) but most dealerships do the job right the first time. I am fortunate to have found a Sub dealer that is respectable and charges fairly. I will definitely bring my OBW to them for the belt change. Brakes and such can be handled by anyone .
One needs to be aware that Subaru is on the third design for the head gasket.
I rarely pay someone to work on my car but did have an independent shop do the HG repair. For me it was the right decision. Shop is Subie only shop and has been in business for more than 20 yrs. Shop says they have never had a HG failure on engines with third generation HG design.
Their std service for replacing the HG is to remove the engine, resurface the heads and replace ALL gaskets and seals on the engine. They use nothing but factory parts. I paid $1300, the dealer wanted $2000+ and no mention of resealing.
Good or bad service can be had at either dealer or independent shops.
If this is true, then why does the owner's manual for my new 2005 Forester say to put Subaru Coolant Conditioner in every time you change the coolant?
I am really worried about this head gasket issue. I read all about it on the internet and then went out and bought the Forester anyway, figuring that Subaru has had plenty of time to fix this problem by now. I'm not really that wild about the car, it's just the best station-wagon-like thing I could get for the money. The service people at the dealership when I bought the car said they haven't seen any problems on the '04 and '05 models, but now I'm thinking that might be because they've been putting in that Coolant Conditioner at the factory and whenever the coolant is changed!
Maybe I'll trade it in in 3 years. But what should I get instead?
Don't get paranoid about it. My next-door neighbor runs an independent repair shop and he works on Subarus. He has *never* seen a bad head gasket. What you read about on the newsgroup is not representitive of what an average owner will experience.
The best thing that you can do is check the coolant level regularly, and make sure that when it is changed, all the air is purged from the system.
BTW, my '99 Outback has 107,000 miles on it with nothing more than scheduled maintainance. I intend to keep it until it has at least 200,000.
It's a lottery with any new car. Even Mercedes had a huge recall recently.
One of the mechanics has posted how to do it. You can go back and google it or perhaps he'll post it again.
I would add to watch the temp gauge very carefully. Note it's normal position before draining the coolant and then shutdown the engine if it exceeds that while filling.
Here's how I did it recently and is close to the procedure in the factory manual.
After filling the cooling system I placed the rad cap on and made sure the overflow tank was about half full. Next I started the engine and set the idle speed to about 1500-2000 rpm. I let it run this way until the cooling fan had cycled for the third time (was close to the time the manual calls for). By that time I could no longer see any air bubbles rising from the overflow tank. I let the engine cool down and then added water to the overflow tank so it reached the lower normal line. Haven't had to add any more water since and that was about 3 months ago.
Some have said they run their car up on ramp to elevate the engine to help with purging the air. If you pay attention to the engine and where the coolant exits from the block you will note it is at mid-point. IMO elevating the front of the engine adds to the possibility of having trapped air in the engine. Needless to say I didn't elevate the front of the car.
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