Anyone here ever have to deal with this law when the dealer can't find the answer to a problem with my '02 Cherokee?I do have a file case number and they will look at the Jeep Monday and make a decision on what to do.If they decide to replace the vehicle will I have to pay anything?Please give your input.
I haven't had any personal experience, but I once worked with a guy that had to use the Lemon Law.
Not only did the auto maker take the car back, they paid the finance charges that were tacked on to put the financing together, and they paid for some level of "pain and suffering" or whatever it is called. The bottom line is, my friend got out of the lemon and into a competitive product, and got a new bundle of twenties to carry around. (A rather large bundle, as I recall.)
Approximately 11/20/03 10:27, JOE uttered for posterity:
Some states have tighter lemon laws than others. Personally if I were about to kick a manufacturer in the 'nards with a Lemon Law dispute, I'd pay a lawyer a few bucks for some good advice even if just a referall to a lawyer specializing in that type of practice.
about to kick a manufacturer in the 'nards with a Lemon Law dispute, I'd pay a lawyer a few bucks for some good advice even if just a referall to a lawyer specializing in that type of practice.<
This is very bad advice. If DC is being forthcoming all he has to do is check his State AGs website for specifics of the state's lemon law and ensure they're living up to wat he's entitiled to. In generl the mfr must either refund the purchase price or replace the car. They can deduct for mileage, damage, etc.
Attorneys at lemon law firms are bottom-feeders who'll do nothing for owners they can't do themselves. DC has no interest in losing a customer like this, but the attorney will just charge a very large fee for sending a form letter.
Each state's lemon law might be different, but to have a lemon law case you generally have to have had the vehicle out of service for a certain number of days in a given time period (in Michigan it is 30 days within the first year of ownership) or have had a certain number of failed attempts of the same repair (in MI it's 4 attempts). The damages awarded also differ from state to state, some allow for everything you paid for the car plus attorney's fees, some allow for a "depreciation deduction" in the reimbursement allowance.
I'm dealing with the Michigan Lemon Law with my wife's '03 Honda Odyessy. Major oil leak right off the lot, the third time it was brought in (had 800 miles on the odo) they replaced the shortblock. Still leaked, probably from main seal on the new shortblock. It was out of service a total of 32 days in the first two months we leased it. (MI's law includes leased as well as purchased vehicles.) This was last March/April, and we're in the settlement negotiation phase now. It does take a long time, you have to have patience.
A couple things to remember when invoking your state's lemon law:
(1) DO NOT solicit lemon law advice from the dealership. Don't even ask them if they think you'd have a lemon law case. What do you think they will tell you? Most lemon law attorneys offer a free consultation.
(2) If you go ahead with filing suit, you must continue to make your payments until the matter is settled, even if it is undrivable. If you can use it, you have to continue to carry insurance on it as well, though if it's parked because of the defect I don't know if you'd need to carry full coverage. Ask your attorney.
Here''s a link to a lemon law referral service that may be helpful.
I had a 1998 Grand. When it got that far, the rep from Chry. gave me a loaner and had the car fixed. The replaced the rear diff. u joints, drive shafts and painted the front end. (Peeling paint)
Ok, I gotta ask....
What 'is' the problem?
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT'sJOE wrote:
required to voluntarily buy back the vehicle, according to my experience outlined in a previous post. <
Then your experience is unusual. I was Director of Customer Service Operations for a luxury brand before I retired in '00. We took back many a car in Michigan without ever involving attys, and our customers got everything they were entitled to and more, I didn't want to lose them to the competition. We retained nearly 90% of all customers whose situations qualified under the various state LLs.
Lemon laws are very simple: If you can prove your vehicle has had 3 or more unsuccessful repair attempts for the same issue, or if it's been out of service for a cumulative 30 or more days then you qualify, period. Resolution is basically up to you, but the mfr does get to deduct for use, each States rules are a bit different.
A LL atty does nothing to add value to this for a customer, and generally just causes the issue to be prolonged, as the mfr will simply turn it over to their OGC for disposition by their lawyers. I generally resolved these issues within 60 days or less, but consumer litigation cases went on for months longer and the customer never got anything more, and often less than they would have if they'd just let the mfr work it out with them.
By the way, right or wrong dealers are not liable in any way for LL cases, and are not held accountable for incompetence by the States. Therefore they have no "dog in the fight" and generally will be candid with you about who at the mfr to contact. Also, check your owners literature that came with your Cherokee. It should have a booklet that outlines the Lemon Law in every state (my '01 Grand Cherokee did) plus the procedure you need to follow to file a claim. Some mfrs arbitrate these thing through the BBB, but I dumped them as it was no better than just resolving the matters ourselves. Some states mandate you must use BBB, but we tried to get things settled amicably with the customers and kept the BBB happy that way.
There's nothing more aggravating than a car that can't be fixed, but at a scum-sucking lemon law attorney to the mix and you have a prescription for true nightmares.
The difference here is you worked for a *luxury* brand. What I should have said was that the manuf. is not required to voluntarily buy back the vehicle, but as you know in the interest of good business they should for qualified lemon claims.
Michigan's rules are 4 or more unsuccessful repair attempts. We qualified, we went throught Honda customer relations, but they just decided to stonewall, partly because they relied on the information provided by the incompetent service dept (i.e., "We can't see a leak.")
I wish you worked for Honda last spring!
I would agree but we were left with no choice. Had Honda chosen to resolve the issue in accordance with the LL, we would all be happy Fortunately we can still drive the car, at least to work and back, I've just been watching the oil level. It would be worse if the car was immobile. We don't dare take it on a long trip (one of the reasons we got it) lest it break down far from home.
Thanks for the insight!
"Lemon laws" are state laws, so the rules will vary from state to state. You will probably need an attorney, and you will probably find several that specifically mention "lemon law" in their yellow page ads.
the issue in accordance with the LL, we would all be happy Fortunately we can still drive the car, at least to work and back, I've just been watching the oil level. It would be worse if the car was immobile. We don't dare take it on a long trip (one of the reasons we got it) lest it break down far from home. >
One thing for sure, keep driving it, and keep complaining about the issue. They have to comply but the burden of proof's on you, you must have copies of the ro's and any documentation you gave the dealer describing the problem (letter, note to service advisor, etc.)
Look, don;t get me wrong, if all else fails find an atty and sue them, but be sure you can prove what's going on. I'm kind of surprised at this, becaus eHonda's rep is that they're very customer oriented....maybe times have changed since I kicked back!
A freakin' car salesman complaining about lawyers who protect consumers from recalcitrant car dealers.
Jerry, did you ever stop to consider that if every car dealer and manufacturer did the right thing on a lemon law claim, there would be no need for lemon laws or lemon law lawyers?
I don't represent lemon law claimants, but I do defend car dealers in lemon law lawsuits. Seldom are these lawsuits totally frivolous. Most of the plaintiff's lawyers I have encountered in these cases are competent and ethical, and much more qualified to advocate their client's cases than their clients could on their own.
I think it is good advice to consult with a lawyer at the inception of a lemon law claim. Consider it a tutoring session to better equip the consumer to negotiate a fair settlement. Also, not every consumer is adept at negotiation, and many get so emotionally involved with their claim that they become ineffective. These people will benefit greatly from the services of a good attorney.
And if you call lawyers "scum-suckers" again, I'm going to find out where you live and come kick your ass. ;-)~
Robert Bills KG6LMV Orange County CA
I have experience in Texas. MFR offered a MSRP to MSRP swap as settlement. I took it, and got a new vehicle...not as nice as the lemon, but 2 years newer and got 0% finance as opposed to the 7+% on the first.
from recalcitrant car dealers. <
I don't and never did sell cars, I ran customer service operations for a Euro luxury mfr.
manufacturer did the right thing on a lemon law claim, there would be no need for lemon laws or lemon law lawyers? <
The laws are fine, it's the bottom-feeder lawyers who prey on consumers, who don't need their services and end up caost ALL of us millions in unnecessary costs, just so they can keep their greens fees paid.
lemon law lawsuits. Seldom are these lawsuits totally frivolous. <
Oh, HORSE SHIT! Dealers are rarely involved in lemon law or consumer product lawsuits. Your dealer buddies and their associations made sure they did not have to be responsible when their incompetent techs (who they refuse to train) completely hose multiple repairs on some porr bastards car.
The clients don't need lawyers to get them what they can easily get onn their own. The bottom-feeder lawyers just need quick sources of case to keep the yacht payments up. All these bastards do is have a secretary print out a boiler plate letter ans send it to the mfr, then they charge the poor consumer $2,000. I saw this so many times the thought makes me sick.
lemon law claim. <
It's a complete waste of the consumers time & money, all they have to do is contact the mfr's. consumer affiars dept using the info contimed in their owners literature.
negotiate a fair settlement. <
Consider it a complete clip job by bottom-feeder attorneys neededing some quick cash to make the Mercedes payment.
They don't have to negotiate anything, all they have to do is contact consumer affiars, tell them the car qualifies, produce the documentation and they're on their way. The law spells it out in plain English what they're entitiled to, particularly in places like Florida. The lemon law in Calif. is known as the "attorneys annuity" becuase it's so simple a kid can do it, but the douche-bag lawyers muscle their way into these very simple transactions, fill in numbers a grade school kid could handle and then send a bill for $10k to the mfr!
emotionally involved with their claim that they become ineffective. These people will benefit greatly from the services of a good attorney. >
There's nothing to negotiate! The consumer gets a new car or their money back, less usage and any unreasonable damages.
you live and come kick your ass. ;-)~ <
Ok, how about SCUM-SUCKING PIGS, punchy!!!!
I took it, and got a new vehicle...not as nice as the lemon, but 2 years newer and got 0% finance as opposed to the 7+% on the first.>
See, and no bottom-feeder lawyer wetting his beak to the tune of $15k for doing nothing, either!
Who was the MFR, if I might ask?
This Lerado is in for the forth time for a steady engine light staying on.They have replaced the Torque Converter and a few weeks ago the Computer.It is still giving a code that the "Transmission Lock Up" circut is the problem.They tell me the code it is giving has not been seen before on this vehicle by Chrysler.The service department is very concerned about this and told me to call customer service and get a file going which I have.I told the CS I want a new vehicle if they can't fix this problem.In CT.it's the forth time back and not repaired it starts the process.
Ok, so in CT four attempts is the LL limit, if it's not fixed this time you qualify. What was their response when you stated you wanted the car replaced? This could be interesting, since three are no Cherokees being produced any longer.
Done and done. We have every piece of paper regarding this vehicle. When it went in the 3rd time to have the shortblock replaced, we had asked that they replace the vehicle, hoping they would do the right thing then. Then afterward when it continued to leak, they claimed they couldn't find the leak.
Like I said before, we're in the settlement negotiation phase. A rep from American Honda has inspected the vehicle for the suit purposes and has confirmed the leak. Of course, *now* they've offer a new vehicle 9 months after we asked for one, but we don't want another Honda product because of what they've put us through. We just want them to buy out the lease and reimburse us for what we've paid/attorneys fees.
I'm kind of surprised at this, becaus
Me too. My wife's mother has purchased a new Accord every 2 years for the last
10, but she said she will never buy another Honda again, as well...they lost 2 customers over this.
In the original post he said it was an '02 Cherokee, which would probably make it a Grand Cherokee, since the XJ Cherokee last model year was '01.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.