Reliability survey of Subarus

I need to see a survey of most dependable surveys before making any decisions based off that.

Isn't J.D.Power survey about the first 90 days of ownership? If I were to keep my car for a

100 days, maybe I'd listen to J.D.Power. Basia

I suspect that article is of importance only to consumers that typically dump their cars after 3-5 years. For folks, like me, that keep their cars for 20+ years, dependability varies over time as the vehicle wears with age and even more so with use (commute vs offroad vs towing) and mileage. A dependability rating that shows how each brand and model within each fare over time and mileage would be far more important since owners are keeping their cars longer and longer, especially as they become more dependable.

The old adage "What's the difference between a brand new car and a junker? About 7 pounds of rust." is still probably true. Regardless of all the increased dependability of the functional part of the car, having bodies that don't rust out means consumers are likely to keep their cars longer, especially in areas where the environment is more harsh to the car, like where roads are salted or coastal areas.

Another problem with the JD Power article is the problems are not biased by severity. Oh, the USB port in the dash doesn't work anymore. Oh no, a CV boot tore and sand got in and the CV joint has to be replaced. Those are a hell of a lot different in cost to repair beyond just each got counted as a problem. Would you rate getting wrinkles as a you age as an equivalent problem to a heart attack? A problem count is worthless since it does not take into account the severity of a problem. Do you think Subaru owners would rate the low-fuel guage problem with the same severity as having to replace the leaking head gasket problem?

I don't believe much of what I see in such surveys. It is always the ones who whinge the most loudly and persistently that skew the results. Sure, having a seldom-used button malfunction is an irritant and so is having the transmission blow up and drop out on a desolate highway 500 miles from home but they are not equivalent. Seemingly the ways that some surveys are conducted equate the two. I can't claim vast experience with Subies but what I do have tells me that they are the most reliable vehicles _I've_ experienced despite having suffered a torn CV boot, a Takata inflator, and a glitchy head-end unit spread across two OBs in 11 years.

This last reported structural weld problem is interesting. Seems that there were up to 2000 vehicles affected and they have been identified and some have not even been sold yet. Huge news! But when one of the big makers has a recall involving 100,000 vehicles it is a ho-hum matter. (There are actually vehicles on the road that have suffered nearly six recalls per year. Try to guess which one.) Why the difference in reporting? Maybe it is that a Subaru problem is unusual and the others aren't. Man bites dog and all that...

I pay no attention to Powers. My wife bought a 2014 Subaru, which Consumer Reports absolutely adored, and which they always score high for reliability. Powers down rated that model for initial delivery quality because of wind noise from the roof rack. How silly can you get?

I have a 2016 Outback. Wonderful car over all. The 'collision mittigation' sucks! I wud have killed that litttle old lady in the commercials and in the crosswalk. I hit a car in crossing in front of me. I was going a few mph from full stop. He was going some 20-40 mph. My stupidiry. Subaru's bad design. No help from Subaru. xxxxx

Just reading J. D. Power tells me that all they do is surveys whereas someone like Consumer Reports does surveys along with their own test driving of cars. Others report on test drives and do brand comparison. Probably not a bad idea to read all of them for help in buying decision.

What? What? Say it again, I can't hear you over the roar of the wind noise ;-)

Don't the crossbars fold into the rails, so they aren't exposed and against the wind when not being used? When in use, the wind noise from the load atop the crossbars would be far greater than any from the crossbars.

Maybe Subaru didn't have the folding crossbars back in 2014. I've found the side mirrors to make far more noise than the roof rack (with the crossbars folded into the rails).

Close your windows.

Since you pretend not to hear us, here's the sign language for "close window":

Whether or not there are crossbars must be a function of year and model. My wife's 2014 Forester (I forget the model name but it was in the middle of the line) does not have crossbars.

Wow! I've never seen that kind of solution before. It's real cool. Is it an option or standard?

On my 2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium, the fold-away crossbar+rail were included. I specially did NOT want the Touring model as the sunroof reduces headroom, and I rarely used a sunroof when I had one. I ended buying from lot stock (by my dealer didn't have the color I wanted, so the car came from another dealer's lot), so I didn't go beforehand to subaru.com to build my own to see what features where included in which option packs. When I did go there today (for 2019 models), I didn't see an option to add crossbars or replace the rails with the fold-away model. My prior Outback got T-boned, so it wasn't like I was planning on getting the new Outback and just got what was available at the time. According to Varela, his 2014 Subaru Forester didn't come with the fold-away crossbars. Might not have been available on any model back then or not on the Forester back then. Crossbars haven't been something on my watch-list regarding Subies.

I still have a 2002 Subaru Legacy. It did not have the crossbars (the flat black ones to minimize wind noise), and all I can find are used ones. Those clamp onto the rails are are semi-permanent (likely when installed that I won't ever bother removing them to store away). It was bought used in 2004 (with 65K miles after which over 15 years I've added only 20K more miles), so I don't know if the prior owner had removed them and not put back on when they traded in the car at the dealership, or if that car never had the crossbars.

To me, having just the rails is worthless. Unless you're carrying plywood that spans across the rails and using cinch straps to open the doors to run the strap around the roof (inside and outside), the rails are useless. You need the crossbars to use the rails. On my Legacy (a wagon), I've gotten away with its extra cargo space and long items extending through the front passenger window, but my to-do list has me looking for crossbars. When I got the 2017 Subaru Outback, I thought the fold-away crossbars were a very neat idea for storage while eliminating road noise.

The flat or tear-dropped crossbars reduce wind noise. I've used a aftermarket roof rack (maybe it was Thule) with both the round and square crossbars, and those are very noisy. Even worse at some speeds where there is a loud thrum in addition to the wind noise (probably some turbulence backflow that become regular in throbbing a reverse impact wave). I tried those flat panels that attach to the crossbars that are supposed to reduce turbulence, but the result is still not as quite as using flat crossbars. The teardrop crossbars were quieter than round or square (even with the flat panels for noise dampening), but not as quiet as the Subaru designed ones that are flat (with some having a tapered tailing edge).

For normal crossbars, they are removable but a hassle to do so. Go hunting for the right-sized hex wrench, remove, and then store somewhere, but that means they won't be with you when you happen to need them (and no one is going to store them inside their car in the cargo area strutting over the back seats). I like the fold-away style, so the crossbars are always available with the car but not always slicing into the wind to make noise. However, I'm not sure those crossbars are replaceable as would the ones that clamp onto the rails and are semi-permanent. I haven't checked if the fold-away crossbars are removable, or checked with the service dept on their parts diagram to see if the fold-away crossbars are separately orderable. Could be you end up having to replace the entire roof rails if the crossbars get damaged.

My 2016 Forester did not come with crossbars but they could have been purchased as an option. My new Crosstrek has them and both these models and lesser ones only use added crossbars. It appears the retractable ones only appear on the Outback. I found this video:

Same video I referenced in a prior reply.

My concern was if the pivot end of the crossbar allows for the release of the crossbar, so the crossbar can be replaced if damaged. Since the video shows the crossbar can be removed using a hex wrench to move the rearward one even farther back, you'd think the crossbars can be separately ordered for replacement. In fact, since the rear crossbar can be moved to separate mounting points rearward of where they fold into, looks like you could have 3 crossbars: 2 at the back (1 fold-away,

1 semi-permanent), and 1 at the front (fold-away).

When I first got the 2017 Outback, I thought "Oh great, I have to buy the crossbars." Wasn't until I read the manual to realize they were fold-away bars that were in the rails. I have yet to need using them.

As for road noise, and since the crossbars are stowed by folding into the rails, I can't say any of the wind noise is caused by just the rails. The only way to know would be to remove the rails, plug the roof mounting holes, and test in a wind sound chamber. Since Outbacks have always had roof rails, pretty much whatever noise just they make will be present in all Outbacks. It's the crossbars when across the rails that would add noise.

I dug out the original window sticker from the car. It is a 2014

2.5i (i for injector?) Premium. Standard equipment included "Roof Rails", not "Roof Rack". At a guess, crossbars turn roof rails into a rack. Maybe a more expensive model would have come with crossbars, or maybe they were an option on the Premium model; I have no way of knowing.

Incidentally, the car is six years old and has never had any repair. We had my wife's previous car, a 1999 Forester, for 14 years and it never had any repairs, either. Full disclosure: The 1999 only had

70,000 miles in 14 years (7,000 of them in one trip from Virginia to Utah and back) and the 2014 has only 14,000 miles on it.

I see I missed your earlier cite.

I've never noticed any road noise for the crossbars on my Foresters or Crosstrek.