'91 Bonneville; working with fuel lines

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ends that connect to the fuel filter and the flex lines are shown to the right of the tool as GM fuel line. Similar to a 'push connect' but not swaged as far from the end and they use an O-ring. Nuts can be had from anyone who handles Edelmann or can cross reference it: (scroll down) You need 109400 for 5/16" steel line and 109600 for

3/8" steel line. These numbers are good at Carquest and IIRC, NAPA can cross them over.

The Mastercool tool is around $400 if you want to make your own lines or you can purchase repair kits marketed by Dorman which contain a section of pre-swaged steel line, a nut and a compression fitting for joining it to the next section of line.

All good advice, and.....

Be sure to check the brake hydraulic lines and chassis for corrosion as well.

When lines start leaking, you must also check the rest of the chassis structure and tubing in all the other systems.

We don't want to help you get the car running only to be hurt in an accident where a suspension or brake component fails due to excessive corrosion.

You might guess, I'm from New England where this kind of problem is all too common.

Bob

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I disagree....Bob, with the good advice part.

Good advice would be to simply say...........

"Use rubber hose, and never mind the bullshit".

now.......

that's good advice.

:)

~:~ MarshMonster ~sips his mushroom tea......grabs his $400 flaring tool...... to go fix the $300 car.....mmmm......another find high quality

91 Bonneville restoration......this one oughtta bring ALOT at the next Barret-Jackson auction...........takes a toke........ mmmmmm.......good stuff~ ~:~

Right on the money, Bob. Trying to reinstall the tank, the left front corner twanged the brake line for the right rear just enough to cause it to crack and start leaking. Wouldn't have held up much longer anyway, as you knew.

A few questions about brake line repairs...

I'd have to go about a couple of feet forward from the break to get to material that's still in good shape. The fitting that joins the run below the doors to the part that crosses the car forward of the fuel tank is never going to come loose, either.

My past attempts at doing this kind of repair relied on brass or steel compression fittings, which never seemed to have enough to dig into with this very stiff, thin walled tubing, or trying to make single flares, which usually split and leak but sometimes worked. I keep reading that you shouldn't use compression fittings on brake lines, but what else is there?

How *should* I do this repair? Can I get these lines fabbed somewhere? Do all the bending and have a brake shop do the flares for me for a few bucks? Or *is* there a fitting I can use to butt-join brake line tubing?

Or do I buy aarcuda's $400 swaging tool? Or is there someplace to borrow or rent one of those?

You're never too old to learn, I guess. Thanks for any advice you'd like to give!

Mike D.

I just finished a neat job using fuel injector hose to replace the rotten sections of fuel line. Double hose clamps, plastic wire loom to protect it a bit... I'd have had the job done by now if not for the brake line.

Ahh, that's about the size of it, Monster.

Still, considering the $800 estimate for the fuel tank repairs which we've just managed to dodge, maybe I've got some tool-buying cred built up with the wife? Hmmm... ~leans back, pondering~

Mike D.

Most parts stores around here have sections of brake lines already made up that you can buy and bend to fit.

On something as rotted as you describe, trying a compression joint isn't advisable or likely to work. Not 'legal' for safety inspection purposes in lots of places too.

If you have to do a panic stop, the line can easily blow once that thin. Been there done that!

Buying pre-made ones is also possible usually although expensive.

Oh, a product called 'Seal-All' sold in hardware sections or stores works 'really' well for sealing up leaky gas tanks to keep it leak free for a couple more years. It will even seal active gas leaks if a cardboard (cigarette pack like) backer is used to put it on and it is held for a few minutes. Great for rotted seams too.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

That makes sense. I expect there's a bit of trial and error getting the length right for the last piece.

I need to cut the brake line about a foot forward of the union between the front and back halves of this run, or else replace it all way forward. Is there any way to either put a flare on this cut end, or else a fitting that *can* be used? Or do I replace it all the way to the master cylinder?

Thanks much, Mike.

Mike D.

I hear your pain, I also live in the rust belt. I had to toss the whole body tub in the trash on my Jeep CJ7 and at that time I put all new lines in for everything. I went fiberglass with the body. No more rust!

Now if only my frame agreed....

There 'are' steel line hydraulic compression fittings, but the ones I have seen and used rely on the full thickness of the metal and a smooth surface to make and hold their seal. They aren't likely to work well if at all on a rusty line. I have only used them when I could get to a smooth solid run of line.

The last ones I got were at a specialty store that sold hydraulic equipment.

One tip, I use a socket wrench on those fittings after I give the fitting a good soak over a couple days in penetrating oil. I cut the line close, 1" +/- so a deep socket will fit and maybe I have a stub to still use if there isn't a hope of it coming off.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Work towards the middle where your union is going to be.

Lots to choose from $20.00 to $250.00

If you need too do bubble flares

I do mid line splices all the time, double flare and connect with the appropriate sized flare union.

Do NOT use compression fittings on brake lines EVER!

I have to laugh at myself for this. It never occurred to me that I could buy a manual tool for these more complicated flares. I spent some time with Google and they're available all over the place, and not expensive! D'oh!

Great! I can do this!

Or use pre-fab and just cut the last length to fit. Wonderful.

Now that I know the obvious *right* way to do the thing, I'll never be tempted.

Thanks, everyone. Great info.

Mike D.

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Want some reeeeeeelly good advice..???

Call NAPA........

they sell a brake line thats EXTREMELY flexible.

Buy a piece that's way to long for what you need, then you'll know you have enough to do the job. Use unions brass flare unions to join sections with if you've got to work on several areas.

You simply "roll" the extra into a coil shape to take up the extra length. Fact,not Fiction. One of the best new products out there in years for techs. Works on brakes or fuel line.

anywhooooo......... good luck, don't make it harder than it needs to be.

~:~ marsh ~takes a toke.......mmmmmmm.......good stuff~ ~:~

Note to self: Check fuel lines on car next time its jacked up.

harryface

1991 Bonneville 310,188 2005 Pak Avenue 61,600

I took the rotted brake line off the '91 Bonneville just now. I believe I have bubble flares!

Just so I don't make a mistake with what tool I'm buying...

Some say they'll make ISO bubble flares.

Some say they'll make double flares.

Some explicitly say they'll make both and have extra dies.

I've read that the first half of making a double flare leaves you with a bubble flare, and that you finish it off with the other side of the die...

Does this mean that I can buy any double flaring tool and it will make bubble flares, or not?

I'd like to get a tool that will do both k> Note to self: Check fuel lines on car next time its jacked up.

That's how it is!

Thanks!

Mike D.

Please don't half-assed this.

Me either, but I got a pretty good idea of what might happen if you take short cuts.

Then this, that you quoted:

aarcuda writes:

Not planning to, which is why I was asking whether this "thing that I read on the 'net" was garbage or not... Ignorant isn't *NECESSARILY* the same thing as stupid!

Yep. No problem.

Shopping around today, I couldn't find any of the dual purpose tool sets. I'd seen at least one online for a reasonable price. I might just cheap out all the way and take out a bubble flare kit on the free tool loaner program at one of the local auto parts stores... I've got more time than money, I'm afraid.

I also found out about a local specialty shop that could duplicate the original line for me for maybe 60 or 70 bucks... They've got NC machines to do the bending, believe it or not. Could re-do every hard line (brake and fuel) on the car for less than $400. Something for future reference.

Thanks,

Mike D.

Plumbing supply stores sell cheap coil springs about a foot long you can slide or even wrap on those lines, then slide along to make smooth bends. It works well.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

A partially formed double flare does not equal a bubble flare.

For a one time deal, the tool loaner program would be your best bet.

One brake line for $70? Is that installed and bled?

I'm thinking that if the lines on the car are THAT bad, you might find it just easiest to start at the master cylinder and redo the whole bloody car using a tubing a bender and some time.

When I redid the race car, I just used my buddy's cheap handheld tubing bender, coathangers as templates and buckets of patience. On my truck, I ended up replacing half of it anyway because of rust - one line had to be replaced when doing the wheel cylinder and then the other line buckled and split and so on...

That way you don't have to worry about matching up flare types or trying to flare rusted stuff on the car where you cut it or any of that crap.

Just my 2 cents.

Ray

Hi Ray,

There are two very bad areas just ahead of the rear wheel wells, but sound line forward of that. I may end up replacing the aft part of the driver's side line, too, which is not very long or complicated.

Zen and the art of automobile maintenance. I know that process a little bit!

Right, which is why I half expect the other line to go and won't begrudge doing it.

I think if I planned on keeping the car, it'd make sense to do 'em all. But the cancer is getting so bad elsewhere that I'm not willing to spend any extra effort beyond the minimum to keep it running and safe, for just a little while longer.

Mike D.