Changing oil through dipstick tube vs. using the drain plug

Guess I am not following this part.....when you put the tube down the dipstick hole, you can feel it hit the bottom of the pan. Also, the tube that is provided is cut at a 45 degree angle.

I can't say it is the best way to change the oil, but when I pulled the drain plug, a few drops came out, nothing more. So, it appears to me that it got quite a bit of the oil. The reason I got it, my Audi A4 has the plastic underbelly that is a royal pain to get off. On my wife's RX330, I have still been doing the drain plug method. But, this next time, I will use the pump and then pull the drain plug to see how much difference there is.

The main difference I noted between a pump and drain plug was, with the Griot's pump, the oil cannot be extremely hot. They don't advise driving more than 10-15 minutes before changing. When I do the drain plug method (I also have the Rhino Ramps -- they are great), I usually do the oil change after driving about 30 minutes.

Curt

-- Curtis Newton snipped-for-privacy@remove-this.akaMail.com

That's the smartest thing you've said so far! Bob

And you are one of the noisiest windbags I have never met! Bob

Not exactly. Mid to late 80s Ford Crown Vic and Mercury Grand Marquis with 302, engine has two distinct sumps, two drain plugs, only one dip stick. Any MoPar LA V-8/V-6 with a center or rear sump, dipstick is at the front of the block (literally). Won't work on my 340-6bbl, won't work on my 3.9 Dakota So much for always...

Push button oil changes without having to jack the vehicle up, put it on ramps or rack it on a hoist, totally ignores 50% of the job which is periodic inspection for potential problems, coolant leaks, oil leaks, check the differential, greasing the steering components/u-joints, etc.

No wonder this group is so busy.

My understanding of Honda automatic transmissions are that they are a very different design (closer to a "wet" manual transmission), and that they are typically as reliable as other automatic transmissions that use filters.

The automatic transmission on my old '89 Integra was running like new when the car was sold at 115K miles.

aaah, just for the record, I have a 1951 dodge with fluid drive (chrysler's rejoinder to GM's hydromatic - a way of avoiding the patents) - it has no filter, it uses 10 wt oil as the fluid and lubricant, and it's been going fine for over 50 years. Of course it doesn't have bands and stuff. My point here is that a filter doesn't make something last a long time by itself.

Sorry if I take it off of the woodworking NG (who did that?).

I looked up the description in my '95 Integra factory service manual. I don't have the automatic version, but the description is in there.

From P 14-6 of the "Integra Service Manual 1995":

"The four speed automatic transmssion uses hydraulically actuated clutches to engage or disengage the transmission gears. When clutch pressure is introduced into the clutch drum, the clutch piston is applied. This presses the friction discs and steel plates together, locking them so they don't slip. Power is then transmitted throught the engaged clutch pack to its hub-mounted gear."

Fumoto oil drain valves. Found at Summitracing.com You'll never do an oil change again without them. If you've got the ground clearance, get the one with a nipple, and you can stick on a chunk of hose & drain directly into an old jug. No more mess. About $15 per valve, but worth every penny.

Oh, you will still need to use ramps for small cars. Trucks & vans tall enough to crawl under are really easy.

I find it criminal that transmission pans don't have drain plugs. Yes, you need to remove the pan to change the fluid. It's an ugly mess. The first time I pull the pan from any new car, I'll put in a drain plug. This first time, I'll use a drill pump to suck most of the tranny fluid out to minimize mess.

-Jeff Deeney-

I tried fitting a Fumoto in my Pantera, but there is not enough clearance around the oil pan to fit one. I found the following valve from Fram, which takes up less space:

And that may indeed find the deepest part of the pan on SOME engines. But what about the engines where the dipstick isn't located over the deepest part of the pan but instead is over one of the "steps" in the pan that is there to clear the subframe, steering linkage, or whatnot? Especially if there are baffles in the pan that prevent the tube from sliding sideways and off the "step" into the deeper part of the pan.

I agree- its a half-assed way to do it and a lot of times its going to be the wrong half of the ass.

It only takes one counter-example to prove that statement false, and I know of many counter-examples.

I've got a couple that are pushing 40 years, and one that is 55. None of them are supported below the entry point into the block.

The newer cable-type dip"sticks" may be different, but a traditional springy dipstick doesn't require support for the few inches it sticks into the pan.

Well, it would take a pretty darn big twerp to call a drain plug "inaccessible."

Back when I went to work in a garage...er, excuse me, "*Service* Station", (circa 1975 or so), when I did an oil change it was standard procedure to completely remove the pan, clean it in the parts washer, and put it back with a new gasket.

And even if you just stopped in for gas, you got your windows washed (front and back), tire pressure checked, and an under-hood check (oil, water, battery, belts, hoses), a *smile*...and a "Thank-You".

Relatives are excluded from this debate!

Fluid Drive was offered in at least two different setups- one was just a fluid coupling after the clutch and before a conventional automatic, which allowed you to take your foot off the clutch at idle and then step on the gas to accelerate. IIRC, most of these versions used engine oil for the fluid coupling, so a) it was filtered and b) it got changed every time you changed the oil.

The other was a true semi-auto and would shift from low to high range when you let off the gas (early versions) or when an appropriate speed was reached (later versions). But neither had bands or multi-plate clutches bathed in fluid which shed wear particles into the lubricant and require filtering.

Honduh's automatic is, I gather, more of an automated manual transmission (rube goldberg device) and so doesn't shed clutch material into the fluid either. I still wouldn't own one.

william_b_noble wrote:

Hm..., that's a completely conventional automatic. Nothing at all like a "wet manual."

Huh? What part of the world was this. I too was a mechanics helper in those years you mentioned working at a "service station". I had never seen this done or ever heard of it being done for an oil change. I would never pull an oil pan to change the oil, no reason to and too many chances of leaks afterwards especially with the degree of experience/training involved with those that do oil changes; not to mention crossmembers, steering linkages, and all other manor of stuff in the way of even getting to the bolts, let alone getting the pan out. Often it is required to undo an engine mount or two and lift the engine to get an oil pan out, and removing other items like starters. Even in the 70's this was true on many vehicles.

Lane

Perhaps it is. I'm not an expert on automatic transmission design. I don't have a means of showing the pages of the service manual drawings. However - some of the info I've gathered suggests that Honda (as well as Saturn) doesn't use a traditional "planetary gear train" design. I've noticed the gear shifting wasn't all that smooth (I really wanted a manual anyways) but I suppose they've gotten better over the years. A description of the newest Honda 5-speed automatic describes it as,

"The V6 engine is mated to Honda's first five-speed automatic transmission. The type MFYA transmission continues in the Hondamatic tradition in that it employs a constant-mesh geartrain on three parallel shafts, vs. the more common planetary gear variety"

That being said - whether or not Honda has chosen to filter the fluid doesn't seem to be that much of an issue - they seem to be as reliable as other transmissions. My service manual did show there's a small screen in the design. Honda has increased their recommended fluid change intervals to 90K miles for their current cars. Of course - I hear there are aftermaket filter systems available for Honda automatics.