Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

Thanks JohnGdole for your great posts! You've certainly given me lots to think about :-)

Do you have a link for the report that showed "significant weight loss (metal corrosion) in lab tests" of the newer pink Toyota Super Long Life coolant? You mentioned the pink Super Long Life isn't as good of a corrosion fighter as the older red Long Life, but the pink Super doesn't have to be replaced every 2 years like the red.

And thanks a million for mentioning that head bolt loosening "glitch."

You also mentioned that Toyota's "Type IV ATF is just a re-labeled conventional (dino) Mobil-3309 ATF. Nothing special about it. For about the same price I'd rather use Mobil-1 Fully Synthetic ATF (the new formulation). I'd think Mobil knows that it's Mobil-1 ATF is compatible with it's dino Mobil-3309." [end quote]

I've been reading that some folks are using Amsoil's Synthetic ATF in place of the Toyota Type IV in their cars. Do you know if the Amsoil synthetic ATF is compatible with the '06 Camry's transmission?

Would it be okay to simply do a drain-and-fill with the Amsoil ATF? This would result in my Camry's ATF fluid being about 40 percent Amsoil and about 60 percent Toyota T-IV, since about 60 percent of the ATF is found in the torque converter, which isn't drained when performing a simple drain and fill. Or would a full flush be required to get all the T-IV ATF out of the car before introducing the Amsoil synthetic ATF?

Reply to
Built_Well
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That's why I said to cut the recommendation in half if you want some extra security. But there is certainly zero reason to be changing the ATF every 15,000 miles unless you are using your car to pull a fifth wheel.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

e:

At least as of 10ish years ago GM and I believe Ford as well specifically recommended against it. I disagree with that, and would not ever follow that recommendation, but that was the official word on the subject.

nate

Reply to
N8N

I think you are partly off base on your last statement. Coolant only goes "bad" from the loss of corrosion protection. Corrosion is just chemical reaction. Almost without exception, and I see no reason this would be one, chemical reactions occurs faster at higher temperatures. So the interval for changing coolant should be based mainly on mileage, not time. It's only while the car is adding mileage that the engine is nice and hot and those chemical reactions are perking. When it's just sitting, not much is going on. The green stuff is plenty good enough for more then two years. Motor mag did an in depth story about anti freezes a couple years ago and talked with engineers from several car companies. They were pretty straightforward and said the green stuff was easily good for 3/36 if not longer but they can't take chances so they are conservative. They also talked about the many issues of using the "wrong" coolant and how it could cause lots of problems due to the different metals and gaskets speced by different car companies. Another bit of info I picked up somewhere back in the days of no coolant recovery was that one of the most detrimental things you can do is to keep opening up the radiator cap to check the coolant and letting "fresh' air get in. Any fresh air with oxygen just adds fuel to the corrosion process. One of the reasons the "new" coolants last longer is that modern systems are almost completely sealed against air getting in. I think Chevy even had a service bulletin about this early on in the dexcool saga.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

At least as of 10ish years ago GM and I believe Ford as well specifically recommended against it. I disagree with that, and would not ever follow that recommendation, but that was the official word on the subject.

nate

************* Ive got a GM with a Teves braking system. Ford used them in some models too. Go too long on those without flushing and replacing brake fluid, and you have bought yourself a couple of thousand bucks of trouble.

I guess one might consider cheaper braking systems to be "expendables". I dont.

Reply to
HLS
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The older integral ABS hydraulic control unit systems were nightmares to begin with. I say change the brake fluid like it was underwear on those. Infact, if we're talking about a Bosch 3 or Bendix 10 system, change the whole vehicle to something more reliable :-)

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

On my Mazda it's the gear/cable for the speedometer. Then again, I have a mechanical speedo...and a 5-speed to boot.

Like Ray said, look for a plug. It's probably set up like a manual trans.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Hide quoted text -

Ethylene glycol coolants will also gel if left to sit long enough; another reason to change them. I've seen it happen in old but unopened bottles of standard green coolant as well as in neglected systems. This is not necessarily the same gelling that occurs when coolant gets hot and mixed with oxygen-rich atmospheric air at the same time, though as a non-chemist I'll leave that one up to the smarter folk. As far as newer systems being "sealed better" - I don't see it. Properly operating systems all the way back to the first use of overflow bottles starting prominently in the 70's sealed their cooling systems just fine.

Coolants primarily fail due to system problems like air entry. Tiny issues could go unnoticed for the life of a car, so in the unfortunate event that you have such a minor cooling system defect, the 2 year limit on standard coolant is a good rule of thumb. I certainly wouldn't push it too much further even if your engine was checked by God himself. As a side note, damn near every GM engine on the road has a really hogh possibility of some sort of cooling system breach, whether you can test for it or not... as a result I do not recommend blindly following the 5 year Dexcool replacement interval, or the 100k to 150k(!) mileage interval. I can't remember a GM yet that didn't get a coolant change due to failed cooling system parts replacement before 150k miles anyway. It's like Audi and their POS use of lifetime G012. Lifetime? Lifetime of the timing belt interval? Lifetime of the failed waterpump or secondary water pump on turbo models? Which lifetime are we talking about, Audi? It sounds like a convenient way to delete the *very* costly radiator drain plug on some of their POS models.

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

Well! Look who's back!

(You snuck in the Toyota group via backdoor, ie, Crossposting...)

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

After the fiasco with sludging oil, I think Toyota is probably over-cautious with their maintenance now. And the sludging was caused (mostly) by people ignoring oil changes, and Toyota still footed the bill for a lot of cleaning/engines.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Couldn't this be solved by a well-place Heli-Coil or two?

The head can't be *too* hard to remove and replace. If you even have to...

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Ford Windstar 3.8L with plastic intake.

Ford solves the problem of the rear bank of cylinders loosing the gasket on this model, then they install a plastic manifold.

Here in Mass we have mandated Ethanol in the fuel.

Seems the plastic Ford used in the early days didn't get along with Ethanol very well...

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Told ya! ;p

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Or changing head gasket material in mid-production...(7M-GE and asbestos HGs...)

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

I'd prefer to use T-IV (or 3309) since it is correct for the application. All of the miracle ATFs out there seem to indicate that

*they* "recommend" them for use in virtually every transmission ever created. That's not good enough for me or my customers. Realistically, I do agree that their synthetic product is probably protective, durable, and friction modified enough for satisfactory use in T-IV applications, but why take the chance? For a $2 per bottle savings?

My experience seems to differ, but maybe I'm not as observant as you are (sarcasm not intended). I find the T-IV in "Super ECT" trannys to get darkened by friction material as fast as the A series trannys used to. The fluid still appears to remain in great shape (though dark) as long or longer than the old A series with D-III though.

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

If you take care of it then your goal shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, the intake is plastic. That's an interesting theory that I can't shoot down, but would suspect it is grasping at straws. The most obvious and certain contributor to pulled head bolts was the early blocks with no threads at the top (deck) surface. On these problem engine blocks Helicoils can be installed, and their serviceability is excellent. It's a little tricky to get the HC tap that deep, but a standard tap can be modified with an extension and a little welding.

No Lexus has a xAZ-FE engine, let alone a 4 cylinder (US destination) so this particular instance is total apples and oranges. Any engine could suffer loose head bolts, due to design or previous installation issues.

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

Nutz. Thanks a LOT, John!

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(Not mine...)

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

The older integral ABS hydraulic control unit systems were nightmares to begin with. I say change the brake fluid like it was underwear on those. Infact, if we're talking about a Bosch 3 or Bendix 10 system, change the whole vehicle to something more reliable :-)

Toyota MDT in MO

********* 1000% agree
Reply to
HLS

That is quite correct. However, the ATF should be synthetic blend or synthetic to reach that interval (100K).

For conventional dino fluid, max life is like 30-60K miles (severe- normal service). But you also have to account for particle loading of the fluid. That's why for Dexron II/III severe service Toyota listed it as 15K miles for the Aisin A series transmissions without a decent filtration system. The fluid may still be good, but there are just too much crap in it.

However, I think Toyota's "lifetime interval" simply means the ATF's life is up when your transmission craps out. Really!

Reply to
john

AERA-Engine Builders Association reported the following:

"The following information concerns the loss of coolant on some

2002-2006 Toyota 2.4L, 2AZFE engines. The location of this condition has been noted at the rear of the engine where the cylinder head bolts to the cylinder block. It has been reported that stripped head bolt threads have been found on some of these engines during tear down. When the two rear head bolts lose their clamping ability they allow coolant to seep out at the rear of the cylinder head."

Reply to
john

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