Dealer left out 3 quart of oil - advice?

I suspect they may try to wiggle off the hook.

- Can you prove any damage was actually done?

- Can you prove they left out 3 quarts of oil?

You can talk to them nicely, and if they don't suggest a remedy you can live with, talk to a good attorney.

Seems like you've covered up any evidence that they left out the oil now that you've added 3 quarts.

I think the lesson learned is: change your own oil.

Personally, I think you have the responsibility to check your oill after an oil change. It's just too simple and too important to leave up to chance. How in the heck are you going to prove they left three quarts out? You can't. You don't know this. Maybe your engine was about to crash at the time of the change. Give it your best shot, but anything you get is strictly "good will" on the dealer's part. I don't think they owe you anything because it can't be shown they did anything.

People that dont know much about their cars entrust them to dealerships. It should follow that they need not check up on the work done by these primo mechanicos.

But you are quite right that the OP left himself no room for developing evidence that would stand up in court.

'Lærepenger'

If the squealing noise you heard was similar to the sound a baloon makes when you stretch its neck while allowing it to deflate, then I suspect, because of several similar episodes I experienced in 23 years as an engine tester with Ford, that it is a crankshaft or camshaft seal that has allowed to dry out through shotage of oil, and is now dragging rather sliding on the shaft. So, IMHO, not major, but possibility of a weep of oil sometime in the future. My fingers crossed that you don't even suffer that. Good luck!

That's the 1st think I do after a oil change. I've also had them *overfill* as well. Checking is a must.

Well, the good news is that they didn't either forget to put in *any* new oil or forget to torque the drainplug -- classics that tend to have prompt and unambiguous symptoms.

That's also the bad news.

If this happened as you describe, I think what's fair is that the dealer should take care of any engine repairs needed.

Whether you *get* that, at least as a prompt solution, depends. Driving 400 miles and adding three quarts of your own oil muddied the waters more than a little, and sometimes you have to fight hard to get your due in these scenarios even when the evidence is very clear.

I'd say, first give the problem a chance to be easy. Talk to the service manager. Maybe he'll be a good sport about fixing your engine and there'll be an all-hands meeting about quality control too.

If *that* doesn't work, your choices are to escalate all the way to an attorney or to go to the consumer-affairs desks at one or more of Denver's media outlets. Sometimes their negotiating skills and the implied threat of bad publicity can get you some satisfactory results without the adversarial proceeding (and likelihood of out-of-pocket, up-front costs) that you get in a law office.

However, just consulting a lawyer is inexpensive and useful in getting a clear idea of what you do and don't have going for you. Be sure to get one with a specialty or at least some experience in consumer affairs -- lawyers come in many kinds, and getting the wrong one can be like getting heart surgery from a podiatrist (or foot surgery from a cardiologist).

Whatever course of action you choose, do take one! Everybody makes mistakes. The good businesses apologize, or at least give you the benefit of the doubt, and set it right. The bad ones hope you'll roll over for it. You're about to learn which kind has been fixing your car.

Best of luck,

--Joe

I'm the OP, and actually I have done most of the maintenance on all of my vehicles for over 20 years. I have had great results and enjoy it. But my employer says my time is too valuable to spend under a car, and my wife doesn't like to wait 1 to 2 weeks for something the shop can do in 1 to 2 days -- so I have given up the van to the dealer for maintenance. I use the dealer because I expect a higher level service. That is why this situation bothers me so much.

Also, I realize that my discovering the problem hid the evidence of it at the same time. That is why I have turned to Usenet to see if anyone can come up with a unique solution. I fully expect the dealership to scoff at me, or offer something like a free oil change (so I am trying to get mentally prepared now).

Bill

Thanks. This sounds like a possibility -- low oil in the pan not contacting the seal, but still being picked by the oil pump. Then then the seal gets washed after the engine starts and the squeal stops in a minute.

Bill

You have ever right to expect as much...

Even if you hadn't topped the oil off, the dealership can merely claim that your engine burned the three quarts in the time between when they changed it and when you discovered it low. Unless you catch it before you leave their premises, you're SOL.

Several people have mentioned that one needs to check the oil before leaving, and I can't really disagree. But, in this case, the dealer also changed the transmission filter and oil, the spark plugs and wires, rotated the tires, etc (60 K maintenance). Where does one draw the line between trusting the dealer and checking? Do I retorque the sparkplugs and lug nuts, pull the transmission pan to check for a new filter, put a caliper on the brake pads even though they said the pads were adequate, etc.? The reason it is at the dealer is because I have become too busy to do all these things myself.

(Not meant to be sarcastic, just where do you draw the line of trust?)

Bill

Let's hope that noise wasn't bearing squeal. IIRC, I had more than one case where the crank spun screechingly against the dipstick--repositioning the dipstick tube solved it. Been so long I don't remember if one (or more) was also low on oil. HTH, s

I'd bet that by using kids' gloves, you could get a gratis oil change for next time--may be better to contact the svc. mgr. now. AND it would be ethically acceptable for you to check the oil level after next change BEFORE you start it up at the dealership. Goes to prove that even the more competent can make mistakes; after all, look at the shuttle incident time-before-last! Let's bet that several people checked *tiles* before this last launch! Luck to you; bad to say, but changing dealerships may not eliminate human error!!! HTH, s

When you are looking at serious engine damage, a gratis oil change is not much consolation. This sort of cheapshit work for major bucks is unacceptable.

That could be seriously bad news. Unfortunately now that you added oil, there is no way to prove what happened to the dealer, they could just say "oil level looks fine to me". I would have had them tow it from your driveway and let them deal with it after taking a picture of the oil dipstick.

If you spun a bearing, the bearing pieces should end up in your filter so it would be a good idea to replace and save this filter for future evidence. And definitely have your oil changed again just in case it was a bearing squeal, god forbid. The fact that your oil pressure is good after adding oil is comforting.

They didn't do their job. They owe you a new engine if the noise comes back or you start to have oil pressure problems. Even half-ass quickie lube places will buy you a new engine if they eff yours up during a 19.95 oil change.

I would try to get something in writing NOW while the issue is still fresh and there are no external leaks that it could be blamed on if you came in later. And document the oil level between changes so that you can prove that you couldn't possibly have burned THAT much oil since you had it in the shop. Let the dealership know on no uncertain terms that a guarantee against bearing failure within a reasonable time frame is the only way you will continue to trust them enugh to take your business there. They may not care, but at least you tried... and make good on your word if you threaten never to take your van there again.

I agree with the last poster. I might add, that about all you could do if they are weenies about it is recommend to everyone you know, not to go there. They'll tell two friends, and so on... The evidence has been destroyed.

I certainly hope you've checked the transmission fluid by now since finding the engine oil level low. If you haven't... wanna bet that's low too?

I agree with you in totality. What can he do for protection? Wouldn't it strengthen his case IF he had received, verified in their records, this free lube job? Esp. if he should incur engine damage? Something like

I think I would prefer to document it with legal action if the dealership does not cooperate to right the problem. Evidence evaporates pretty quickly, and given a little time, people find ways to cover their tracks.

I would not let the iron go cold.