Doing my own brakes (97 Accord) - need some advice

I am a handy guy (engineering background) and I do quite a bit of my own work on my car (oil changes, electrical repairs, etc). I am considering doing my own brake work. With the miles I put on my car each year, I am servicing both front and rear brakes annually at a cost of close to $800. I know that servicing brakes on my own are risky, as my safety can be compromised. I am looking to hear from other "amateurs" who decided to do their own brakes and the problems they have encountered. Any tips and recommendations to quickly get up to speed would be helpfull. I have my service manual to my 97 Accord. Are their classes that any of you took to learn this from a professional? I know that rotors often need to be resurfaced professionally. Where do you guys go for that and how much does it usually cost? Are their videos that anyone would recommend?Since this is my only car, I am wondering if that means I need to keep spare rotors to swap out.

Reply to
techman41973
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One thing I learned (writing as an amateur also with an engineering background, though a fairly "hands on" one) is that it's hard to mess up brakes so badly that the risk is any greater than a random non-brake part failing and causing injury.

Automotive brake systems are "mechanically tough" and have multiple redundancies in their design.

Some 12 years after I started doing my own front brake pad replacements and rear brake inspections, I took one community college (vocational side) course on brakes. Mostly what it did is give me more practice at quickly getting apart and putting back together my 91 Civic's rear drum brakes and similar drum brakes.

I replaced the front pads on my 91 Civic this past summer (after a somewhat exhausting do-it-yourself timing belt tensioner etc. replacement that went a bit amiss) and was amazed at how quickly I did them this time vs. the first time some 15 years ago. It took around fifteen minutes total, with five of those minutes going to put the front of my car on jackstands. Knowing exactly what tools will speed up the job helps immensely, of course.

Some (all?) 97 Accord's have rear drum brakes. The shoes on rear drum brakes wear much more slowly than the front brake's pads. This is good, because the pads are much easier to change.

I never had the rotors on my 91 Civic turned. The thickness is okay (a bit uneven), and they are a bit scored, but the brakes seem to work fine. Plus the car is likely only good for the proverbial (amongst those of us who drive cars into the ground!) "five more years." But YMMV, as far as wanting nicer rotors is concerned.

Reply to
Elle

I am servicing both front and rear brakes annually at a

That is AWFULLY expensive, I think

Years ago, I worked evenings and weekends as a mechanic to make extra money. I took classes and worked with professionals who could give me the benefit of their experience.

As far as safety wise, be very careful how you get your car up on supports, and how you take it down. (You already know the supports MUST be robust)

Sometimes rotors need to be resurfaced or replaced. BUT NOT ALWAYS If they must be resufaced, I take them to a local machine shop. I have dial indicators and micrometers which help me determine if the rotors are true and of sufficient thickness. I have a torque wrench to put the wheels back on properly.

If you are having to re-do brakes annually, something seem suspicious. Pads usually last a lot longer than that. Rotors do too.

What is your problem, or what are you trying to accomplish?

Reply to
hls

I'm gonna jump in here and offer general comments - I haven't done my Honda brakes yet but am close to doing so - I have done brakes on several other vehicles that I have owned and would recommend that you consider going ahead and do your own on the Honda - others may have more Honda-specific tips to suggest.

from the diagrams I have seen, Honda rotors look to be quite simple to exchange - some vehicles have the rotors as part of the hub assembly and this would complicate the issue so that you would have to deal with bearings and greasing them and torquing them, etc - apparently Honda has taken the higher road and has the rotors as a removeable disk attached to the hub so we don't have to get into that.

what has to be done is to remove the caliper (pads first) - take out a couple of screws holding the rotor in place - replace with a new rotor (or resurface your old one and replace) and reinstall the caliper and pads (probably new ones) - and you're done one thing to watch is master cylinder fluid level - you may have to compress the caliper piston (I use a C-clamp) to make room for new pads which have more thickness and this might overflow the master cylinder fluid level another thing to ware of is that you take care to hang the removed caliper so that it doesn't cause stress on the caliper hoses.

to determine whether to resurface or replace you first may determine the remaining thickness of your rotors by miking them and comparing to min specs taking into consideration the condition of your rotors (i.e. if they are deeply scored and grinding them down to remove the scoring will make them too thin..)

nowadays, it seems that resurfacing has taking a back seat to replacing (maybe it's more cost effective {if so, another sad state of affairs} and others will give advice about that) - but that seems to be the recommendations that garages I've dealt with offer - maybe it's simpler for them...

spare rotors: I wouldn't think that's necessary - the only risk might be in getting things apart and discovering you need a part or something and have no way of getting to a parts place to get it because your car is on jacks.... think ahead here > don't get too heavily into the project that you can't back out and drive to the parts store. If you have no other way to get to a place to have rotors resurfaced, and you find they are below spec by preliminary inspection, have new rotors on hand. You can always put the new pads in and drive for a bit without destroying them immediately if your pads are shot. Also make sure you have the necessary wrenches on hand - I don't know yet about the Honda ones, but I got caught on my Taurus ones not have the correct size Torx bit.

I'm sure someone here will post a link to a full-scale how-to for you. But these are my initial caveats for you to consider. As for your previous experience qualifications, I would say that you should have no problems since you can use tools and can read (the engineering part is only relevant regarding the literacy component - my son is an aerospace engineer ;-)

Dave.

Reply to
Dave

It's an easy job, and it's not hard to do right. If you are nervous about it, get a friend to show you. But really, just replacing pads is easy to learn from the Haynes manual.

No, I watched my dad do it on our MGB when I was a kid, and that was all the training it took.

How much do spare rotors cost? If they are cheap, just get an extra set. Follow the directions in the manual and measure the rotors with a micrometer (I actually cheat and use a vernier caliper) to make sure they aren't too thin and aren't warped.

On most cars you won't need to resurface them unless they either get warped or they get wrecked by not replacing the pads soon enough. If you have access to a bench lathe at work, you can use it to resurface the things. But if they are cheap, just replace them if you see any signs of problem.

Ask someone at work who works on their own car to show you. It's an easy job to do.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

" snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:

I made up this series of pages:

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specifically concerns an Integra/Civic, but may help as a general overview for your Accord. Don't know if your Accord has rear drums or rear discs, and if discs, whether you've got drum-in-hat or PB on caliper. If you've got drums, the rears can be left alone for many years.

Reply to
Tegger

Wow! How so? Once you get in there and see how easy it is, you'll wonder why you didn't so it sooner.

Also, look at it this way: if someone with no more than a High School education can do it, why can't you?

(HOLD IT!!!! That was meant as a JOKE, son. Those guys are well trained (usually) by their employers, and have to deal with EVERY SINGLE brake system on the road. When I get stumped, guess what I do...)

At any rate, the only thing I don't like about Hondas is that some of the rotors are pressed onto the bearing, and it makes it a REAL PITA. I think Honda got awa from this by '97.

I used to think the same way until I did my first brake job. And all wheel dics are a snap. If it has rear drums, pay attention, make notes, or use your digital camera. One time I put the adjuster on wrong on one side, but corrected it before I drove the car...

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

You need a press to service this system.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Rotors at palces like CarQuest and AutoZone are anywhere from $8 to $50. Resurfacing costs $25-40 per rotor. I usually just buy the new rotors when doing the pads, then I don't have to fart around with it for 30,000 miles or more...

The way I drive my cars, that's ~3 years between jobs...

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

but it's a great way of reducing the probability of insufficiently trained brake jockeys causing brake judder...

Reply to
jim beam

Ok, here's one I can answer, having just done this on my '98 Accord.

First, it is easier than any car I've owned. My dealer wanted $112 per end, plus parts. The pads(mine has disks on both ends), cost $118 and since I already had a caliper expander, that was all I spent. (Total dealer would have been $336)

The front: My accord has wheels that you can reach through to check the wear on the disk. Mine had minimal wear, probably a couple thousandths, you could just barely hook a fingernail on the lip. After removing the wheel, pull the lower caliper bolt, and the assembly rotates up and out of the way. The old pads pop out rather easily. Drain about half of the brake fluid from the reservoir, so when you expand the caliper it doesn't overflow. (I used a turkey baster). Expand the caliper using c clamps or a tool, insert the new pads,(with shims and the included anti-seize compound) rotate into position and replace the lower bolt. Repeat for the other wheel. Having done this, I think I could do it in an hour, with hand tools, including the jacking the car using the little scissors jack. Why Honda thinks it is worth 2 hours each end is beyond me. If you need to get the rotors resurfaced, a shop in town will do it for around $10 per rotor. The rotors are held on with 4 bolts(I think), and have some predrilled and tapped holes that you can use to pull stuck rotors off. (you put bolts in the holes, and screw them in, forcing the rotor out). All in all, a very clean design, and easy to work on.

The rear brakes are only slightly different, because of the emergency brake. I had to pull both caliper bolts, and the calipers are expanded by rotating them as opposed to just pushing on them. There is a little box type tool that does this, or you can use a very large screwdriver. Because this adjustment is in the caliper, you won't have fluid overflow issues like you do on the front.

All in all, mine took a couple of hours, cost me only the official Honda pads, and I would recommend this job to any backyard mechanic. If you have problems, bring them here for a wealth of good advice.

Al G

Reply to
Al G

What are you, a wise-ass?

I've done the brakes on all my cars since 1999, including a 240SX, Tercels, Celicas, Supras, AWD Caravans, etc etc. Once you've done it once, it's elementary. I've rebuilt calipers, resurfaced rotors, done discs and drums.

How about adding something that helps the OP instead of being a Richard?

Sure. Why not? The guy's an engineer. I was just a lowly technician and was able to figure it out in under an hour.

I'll bet this is you:

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Ya know, after the first 12,000 miles, I stop wondering.

Stop following me around like a little puppy looking for attention, huh?

If you haven't anything to add, STFU. Remember, better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt...

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Thanks! Brakes are No Great Mystery. If the OP gets even a Haynes manual, it should take far less than an afternoon to figure out. There's a set of pads or shoes, and a friction surface. Big deal.

I showed my daughter how to do brakes when she was 14.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Damn, son, you're looking in the mirror again.

Funny how you went Dead Silent when I said I wanted to know about the effects on steering and suspension geometry in the post about tires. Instead you come back with some BS about tire pressures and contact patches. The fact of the matter is, the car maker's spec was 32 PSI for the tires, and the tiremaker's max was 35 PSI. 3 PSI isn't going to make or break anything. The difference is negligible.

But you kept on rambling and rambling until I asked about geometry. Then is got quiet awful fast...

WTF is there to a modern braking system?! Even ABS is no big mystery! What garage do you work at? What kind of boat do you have?

Take the wheel off. Look at the brakes. If you can figure it out, go ahead. If not, put the wheel back on, and drive to any competent shop (Sorry, *, thatr leaves you out...)

I worked at a Toyota dealer...doing brakes...after having taught myself...

NO! HE *HAS* TO DO HIS OWN BRAKES!!!! I SAID SO, THAT'S WHY!!!!

HEY, OP!!! IF YOU DON'T DO YOUR OWN BRAKES, I'LL HUNT YOU DOWN AND YELL NEENER, NEENER, NEENER UNTIL YOUR EARS FALL OFF!!!!

Just thought I'd join in and give you a hand.

Great! Then go away, you irritating little man!

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

And it works! My '88 Accord always went to the shop!

Our friend, "*" (um, who knows EVERYTHING about ALL cars) may not want to admit it, but *I* know when I'm over my head and it's time to consult a Pro...

And I usually do before I take on almost any job. I used to work at a CarQuest and know EVERY mechanic and tech in town, and know who to ask about what situation. If they say, "It's easy!" I listen to their direections/instructions and decide wheter to tackle the job myself or not.

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But I alays get a better understanding (and a lot of respect for the guys who do the jobs I won't...)

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

"*" snipped-for-privacy@this.addy.com> wrote in news:01c7f612$fad11880$b791c3d8@race:

As a certified shade-tree grease monkey who hasn't broken a bolt in twenty years, I'll try to answer these questions...

Sil-Glyde on the pins if they have rubber boots. Anti-seize if they do not.

Molykote M-77 or Sil-Glyde between pads and shims.

For shoes, a dab of anti-seize where the shoe contacts the backing plate.

If you mean the anti-squeal shims...on the backs of the pads. Some applications have two shims on the inner pad.

The other find of shims I'm aware of go between the pad and the padss bracket. These give the pads a slippery surface to ride on as they wear towards the rotor.

The short shoe, assuming the brakes have one leading shoe and one trailing shoe.

My only experience with rear calipers that require a tool are those where the piston must be screwed back in. These all had parking brake mechanisms as part of the caliper.

Do drum-in-hat type rear discs require a caliper piston tool, or can you just push those in?

Floating caliper uses the force of piston(s) on only one side of the caliper to pull both inner and outer pads into contact with the rotor. The caliper must slide over to allow the outer pads to contact.

Fixed calipers usually have pistons on both sides, so there is no need to enable the caliper to slide

I saw a weird setup on a Nissan pickup once. The caliper itself was fixed, but the assembly was still "floating", with two pistons on just the one side. Very interesting.

It keeps the front discs from working before the rear drums have begun to work. I suppose if you had a problem with the rear brakes not working but the fronts working fine, you'd investigate the metering valve if everything else checked out OK.

How'd I score?

Reply to
Tegger

RTFM...it's all in there.

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Shoot!!! I thought they went between the pads and the rotors!

No WONDER I keep hitting kids, trees, old ladies, etc...

But, I'm racking up points like a champ!!!

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

They're losing on me...I do about 80% of routine maintenance myself.

Nope, I don't. I buy Haynes manuals and the shop service manual when I can. I bought a lot of shop manuals for my cars when I was working at a Toyota dealer.

Wait...wait...YOU are telling ME to give MY ego a rest?!?!

There you are in that mirror again!

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

Tegger wrote in news:Xns99AA8A68D48BEtegger@207.14.116.130:

On second reading, this sounds dumb. I've never had to tackle one, so I'm guessing.

Reply to
Tegger

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