there are some super high-load automatic and semi-automatic transmissions out there with wet clutches dude. and their lubricants have some scary good friction modifiers. they don't slip unless their clutches are worn.
bottom line, statements about wet clutch slippage could be on some mighty thin ice.
Do they share oil with the engine like most motorcycles built in the last 4 decades do?
Well, I am certainly not going to try it on any of my bikes, especially those still under warranty. Automotive DCT does not equal motorcycle wet clutch.
motor oils would make a clutch's job easier, not harder - they typically don't contain the e.p. additives that transmissions need.
Oil isn't supposed to make your engine run better. It's supposed to keep it from running worse, years down the road.
--scott
Sort of. One analysis really doesn't tell you anything. If you do an analysis with every oil change starting with a new engine, you can mark out a baseline and see how things are going very effectively.
About all one analysis will tell you is whether there is a catastrophic problem with the oil, like the VIs are breaking down or the base oil is breaking down or it's becoming clogged with particulates. You can probably get that information elsewhere.
But running constant and regular analyses will tell you all kinds of things, to the point where you can get some notion of changes in bearing wear and you can tell when you're getting through the carburized layer on cams, etc.
The problem is that running constant and regular analyses is more expensive than just replacing your engine every 100,000 miles, unless you're running an aircraft or big marine engine.
--scott
Understood, that was in response to Tom's comment about Rotella T Synth possibly not being suitable for common sump/wet clutch applications. I actually initially assumed the same, but when I went online to research, it was consistently in the top 2-3 recommendations and the clutch seemed to work fine both before and after the oil change.
Oh, and Tom, you were right, the bike was actually a SV650. Couldn't remember off the top of my head when I was posting before. Actually liked the little thing, I could see myself riding one. My only complaint is that the seat seemed awful high, I'm not a short guy and yet I found I was on my tip-toes when trying to "walk" it back out of a parking space, for example. Easier to just stand beside it and move it that way, although it looks less cool. Well, that, and the styling isn't my thing, but that's just personal preference.
nate
well, it couldn't run without it. and better oils do make for lower friction.
depends on your objective. if you use analysis to determine your optimum service interval, and that interval can be extended, analysis can pay for itself. that's completely irrelevant for the recreational oil changer crowd that haven't moved on since the 50's. but they're much more into superstition than science.
On a car where you're paying, what, $25 and fifteen minutes for an oil change, you need to be extending the interval a whole lot to save enough for oil analyses.
On a tractor-trailer or a DC-3 it's a very different matter.
--scott
snipped-for-privacy@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:l0ns3b$aa2$ snipped-for-privacy@panix2.panix.com:
Or you enjoy playing at tribologist, and find it thrilling throwing around various obscure acronyms, like many denizens of BobIsTheOilGuy.com.
The seat could be lower, but then your legs would be cramped while riding. Or both the seat and pegs could be lower, but then you would ground out in corners more often, as in what happens when you try to go fast on a cruiser.
BMW says if you can get your whole foot down, you are wasting valuable ground clearance.
Someone needs to make a seat that rises at speeds above 10 mph, then drops back down when stopping.
Yes - I was presenting the short version.
Or operating several million dollars worth of construction equipment, a railroad, a fleet of trucks...
mobil 1 at my local woolmort is ~$25. if you're a recreational oil changer and do it every 3k miles, that's $75 for three changes. but if analysis /proves/ to you that you can actually and safely extend to say
9k miles, and an analysis is $40, that's only $65 - i.e. you've saved $10 within the space of one change. excluding the cost of filters and additional labor. if you can safely extend to $20k miles, and some oils will easily do that, arguing /against/ analysis makes absolutely no sense.different in terms of acceptance of a scientific practice, but not need. big expensive machines get maintained by trained professionals who are generally employees of the machine's owner. iow, owner/maintainer interests are aligned. cars usually get maintained by people with much less technical expertise and who make their money selling you more of their services, not less. iow, owner/maintainer interests are /not/ aligned. the guy that does your oil changes sure isn't going to tell you to have analysis done and so pay them less often now are they? and if they don't have sufficient technical background, they're not even going to /know/ what benefits exist!
^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
he's the only genuinely original thinker on there.
if they're changing it at only 3k miles, that's about the most "polite" thing to say.
For whatever it's worth, synthetic is all I've used for years, and I've never noticed any slipping. (This is more of a test message than anything. My posts are not appearing on another NG.)
Not synthetic oil per se, but oils with certain friction reducing additives may be a problem. Of course, many motorcycle specific oils designed to be used with wet clutches are synthetic.
I remember something about avoiding "energy conserving" oil (or something along those lines). I've used only Mobil 1 that didn't have that designation.
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