Fuel Hose Replacement Question

> The right side connects to the fuel pump, then a rubber section in the > middle is fastened with large crimps (a second rubber sleeve fits over that, > probably for protection). At the top left, this first piece connects to a > solid steel line which once ran all the way to the engine area. The loose > end of this second piece is where it had rusted through, and broke off when > I attempted to remove it. > This hose assembly is too badly rusted to be reused in its entirety, but > due to the extremely high cost of these two parts (over $200) I'm wondering > if a simpler fix will work. My plan is to cut and bubble flare the hose > shortly after it leaves the fuel pump, then clamp a piece of heavy-duty > rubber fuel hose between there and the point where the second steel line > broke (after trimming and flaring it of course). For added stability, I > would secure this new rubber hose to the body by means of a clamp roughly > halfway along, where the previous chassis connection used to be. > Obviously this is something I can't take chances with, but at the same > time I simply can't afford to use OEM parts for this - there must be some > sort of compromise that will be just as safe and effective. > Thanks for any advice on this. >

I'd recommend using the factory parts. that is the only way to be 100% safe.

Second choice would be to use Aeroquip or other AN type hose/fittings. likely as costly as first choice, but likely *more* durable.

Third choice would be to do as you describe. I wouldn't put a *full* bubble flare on the line, just enough to approximate a hose barb. Then use new HIGH PRESSURE FUEL INJECTION hose (I can't stress that enough) and screw-and-nut type "fuel injection" clamps. DO NOT USE WORM CLAMPS. If this is under the car, consider sourcing all-stainless clamps. this may prove difficult at brick-and-mortar stores, but McMaster-Carr sells them.

I did the third choice on my Porsche when I was presented with a similar situation - the rubber hoses fatigued, they were permanently crimped onto a hard line running the length of the car, and the "correct" repair would approximate the value of the car. I double-clamped each end for extra insurance. It's still holding. There is an AN type kit to repair these lines, which I have obtained (you can't just pick up the metric-to-AN fittings at your local speed shop) but the first repair is still holding.

Do not, under any circumstances, use any hose or clamps that do not say "Fuel Injection" or "High Pressure" (in combination with "Fuel" on the hose) - not worth the risk.

I caught an old Dodge on fire once because some previous owner/mechanic had thought it would be acceptable to replace rotted-out trans cooler lines with regular, low pressure fuel hoses, and I didn't realize that he had done so until one let go while I was driving. Just don't do it. Use the right stuff, be safe.

Be very wary of the steel hard line that has rusted away - if it is at all questionable, cut it back to a completely unrusted section, flare it, and use a union to splice in a new section.

nate

Chris F. wrote: My plan is to cut and bubble flare the hose

If you flare the steel line, the rubber will get eaten through very fast from vibration. You need a straight tube with a double worm clamp. A plumbers pipe cutter with the cutting wheel is the best for no burrs which will also eat the rubber line.

Otherwise, your plan is fine.

Mike

2000 Cherokee Sport 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame and everything else in '09. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos:

He said bubble (ISO) flare not double flare. A partial ISO flare, or partial first step of a double flare, looks an awful lot like the formed-in hose "barbs" on the factory Porsche hard lines.

I really, really don't like the use of worm clamps on high pressure hoses (I'm assuming this is the outlet side of the FI fuel pump.)

nate

I don't believe the pressure on your Civic would be past 60 psi. Brake lines are in the 1000 psi range.

What about visiting a local hydraulic shop? Where I live there's a place called Princess Auto that can make custom hydraulic lines with whatever you want on the ends. For $200 they could probably make something that would go from the fuel pump to the engine's fuel rail.

What size is that line? Maybe use 1/4" brake line and cobble something together with your flaring tool and adapters?

I bought a spool of 25 foot 3/8" fuel line for my dirt camaro from SummitRacing.com for about $20ish. (it was a couple of years ago...)

Ray

> The right side connects to the fuel pump, then a rubber section in the > middle is fastened with large crimps (a second rubber sleeve fits over that, > probably for protection). At the top left, this first piece connects to a > solid steel line which once ran all the way to the engine area. The loose > end of this second piece is where it had rusted through, and broke off when > I attempted to remove it. > This hose assembly is too badly rusted to be reused in its entirety, but > due to the extremely high cost of these two parts (over $200) I'm wondering > if a simpler fix will work. My plan is to cut and bubble flare the hose > shortly after it leaves the fuel pump, then clamp a piece of heavy-duty > rubber fuel hose between there and the point where the second steel line > broke (after trimming and flaring it of course). For added stability, I > would secure this new rubber hose to the body by means of a clamp roughly > halfway along, where the previous chassis connection used to be. > Obviously this is something I can't take chances with, but at the same > time I simply can't afford to use OEM parts for this - there must be some > sort of compromise that will be just as safe and effective. > Thanks for any advice on this. >

If the line is that bad. Replace the ENTIRE line. Not that hard to bend the tubing and form a new line that will go from the front to the back. Then make the short piece that connects to the pump. Now take the two pieces to a place like NAPA and have a new rubber line crimped on. I have had them make a few replacement lines for my vehicles that way.

You can buy the bulk steel line in most parts stores.

OR you could run a complete rubber line to the front, yuck it in good and secure it and use Fuel Injection hose.

I have never seen a homemade flare of any type ever work with a flexible hose. They all wear through.

You are right on the worm gear clamps, they make a new style one with a solid band for FI systems, I should have mentioned that. Thought of it after.

Mike

I'm a little reluctant to replace steel line with rubber. Can you get someone to bend some stainless brake line to fit?

--scott

>> The right side connects to the fuel pump, then a rubber section in the >> middle is fastened with large crimps (a second rubber sleeve fits over >> that, probably for protection). At the top left, this first piece >> connects to a solid steel line which once ran all the way to the engine >> area. The loose end of this second piece is where it had rusted through, >> and broke off when I attempted to remove it. >> This hose assembly is too badly rusted to be reused in its entirety, >> but due to the extremely high cost of these two parts (over $200) I'm >> wondering if a simpler fix will work. My plan is to cut and bubble flare >> the hose shortly after it leaves the fuel pump, then clamp a piece of >> heavy-duty rubber fuel hose between there and the point where the second >> steel line broke (after trimming and flaring it of course). For added >> stability, I would secure this new rubber hose to the body by means of a >> clamp roughly halfway along, where the previous chassis connection used >> to be.

The rule book for your camero probably states that no fuel lines can run inside the car unless enclosed in steel tubing and sealed at both firewalls. I am very leery of running *any* fuel lines inside the car. If I couldnt find a brand new factory replacement I would run steel lines under the car. Fuel in the interior terrifies me... HTH, Ben

>> The right side connects to the fuel pump, then a rubber section in the >> middle is fastened with large crimps (a second rubber sleeve fits over >> that,

I didn't realize I could have those crimps done at NAPA - that's probably what I'll end up doing. A cross-union should do for the final connection. Once everything is reassembled I plan to run the fuel pump long enough to pressurize the line, and inspect thoroughly for any leaks before attempting to start the engine (if it will even start after sitting for 9 months), just to be certain.

>>> The right side connects to the fuel pump, then a rubber section in the >>> middle is fastened with large crimps (a second rubber sleeve fits over >>> that,

depends on how good your NAPA is. If you can get the old hose off in one piece, you might be able to get an exact duplicate made *IF* you have a good shop nearby set up to do custom hydraulics work. then repair the hard line as required, using original style fittings.

That would be a good way to go, to prevent future repair hassles...

nate

Then hose clamps are fine. I believe TBI fuel pressure is like

10-20psi, not 40+ like most port FI.

But, I'm not a Honda expert, so maybe one can confirm the pressure is acceptable for hose clamps.

Ray