High mileage fluids.

I see more and more oils, anti-freeze, fuel system cleaners, etc advertising that its for high mileage cars.

Do cars with over 75,000 miles really have different chemical needs than newer cars? Or is it all the same stuff in a different package

Reply to
J J
Loading thread data ...

Its all marketing. The "high mileage" fluids are a bit different- they have things to swell and soften gasket materials. But those are usually detrimental to the seal in the long run.

Reply to
Steve

Lauren_ snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J J) wrote in news:15800-46A63EB4-1167@storefull-

3232.bay.webtv.net:

If you take care of your vehicle, you can use the very same fluids from cradle to grave, regardless of how long or far it takes to actually get to the grave.

Reply to
Tegger

Eh, possibly - but cars that *sit* might benefit from seal conditioners, etc. Not sure how well they really work though.

This is actually somewhat pertinent to me since I just bought a truck that apparently had only been lightly used for the past few years. I just had the oil pan gasket replaced yesterday; I'm thinking I might actually switch over to synth at the next change because I need it to last forever. We'll see if that finds all the other leaks, etc.

I'm really rolling the dice on this one; had the tranny flushed too. Hey, it'll either live or die but if it lives I want it to live forever. Best believe I'll be changing it every 30K-ish from now on and using synthetic there, too (trans appears to be bone dry on the outside) will also add a trans temp gauge so I can see when I'm abusing it. Would also add an oil temp gauge, but I'm running an oil pressure gauge in my little three gauge panel now (along with a vacuum gauge) until I can figure out why the dash gauge is spastic.

I do agree, though, if you keep it clean, keep it maintained, and use a good quality fluid, the drivetrain (assuming it was a decent vehicle to begin with) will last longer than you care to keep the vehicle, generally. If my dad could get 300K out of a '67 Cutlass with the fluids available back then, think what you could get out of even the very same car now.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Nate Nagel wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news2.newsguy.com:

Cars that sit a lot will have problems galore no matter what you do. I'm sure you're painfully aware of this.

These days it may not. As I understand it, the old seal-hardening problems of the early days are gone now.

Yeah, I wonder too. My daddy got 140,000 miles out of his '58 Dodge Regent (Canadian-market Dodge Royal). And with that mileage, it was the talk of the neigborhood back then.

Reply to
Tegger

This used to be true, but the technology has changed. The new additives are not intended to swell or soften elastomers like the old ones did.

They are high molecular weight polymers that condition the elastomer surface and show increased viscosity under conditions which may be observed in worn engines.

My engines dont have problems at 75000 miles because I change oil often and head off some of the wear problems. Elastomers (rubber, seals, whatever you want to dump into this category) are a lot better than they used to be, UNLESS the manufacturer does something really dumb and chooses a cockiedoodie material. As GM did in some of their gasketing.

Reply to
hls

not to mention, if you own multiple cars, it gets really annoying having to stock all the various types of fluids.

My garage has 5w30 regular and synthetic, and 10w30. Three types of coolant (regular green, dexcool, and Subaru OEM.)

I believe the high mileage stuff is a slightly different blend than the regular stuff, but if your seals are that shot... changing oil isn't going to make them stop leaking.

Since when is 75,000 miles hi mileage anyway? Most people I know that drive "older" cars are buying them with around 125,000 miles on them, and it's still the bodies and interiors giving out before the motors do.

Ray

Reply to
ray

ray wrote in news:fHypi.3193$_d2.2756@pd7urf3no:

75K was "hi mileage" in 1930, but then the marketers got hold of the issue.
Reply to
Tegger

I don't think that it's the higher mileage cars need different fluids, I think that it's the fluids are formulated for the new cars. So the oil for todays cars may not be the best choice for a 5+ year old car.

Reply to
Noozer
.

No kidding! My dad didn't consider that "high mileage" in 1960, let alone today!

In my case, 247,000 (wife's car), 280,000 (my car), 430,000 (my other car).

Reply to
Steve

This is actually a valid point, but not for just a 5 year old car. Basically, engines fall into two categories as far as oil requirement: engines with roller cam followers, and engines with sliding cam followers (lifters, tappets, etc). Sliding cam followers aren't well protected by any oil with the current API "SM" rating, because the SM rating REQUIRES a low percentage of zinc-based additives. Zinc-based additives are those that protect the very highest pressure sliding contact points in an engine, and that is a sliding cam follower (even with a mild valve spring, much moreso with a high performance valve spring with a lot of seat pressure). I know some Japanese OHC engines and some domestic OHC 4-cylinders stayed with sliding cam followers into the early 90s, but all the American v8s and v6s and (as far as I know) most European engines switched to roller followers in the late 70s to mid 80s.

So REALLY, the "older engines have different oil requirements" argument is only good for engines that are, in most cases, TWENTY years old or more. And beyond that- check some of those "high mileage" oils and you'll find that they have an SL or SM rating too, meaning they STILL don't protect the camshaft as well as they should!

Reply to
Steve

There's lots of cars newer than 20 years old that use flat tappets. VW and Porsche (at least 944/968) are two that come to mind; of course the basic architecture dates back to the 70s but they were on the market well into the 90s. I *believe* my '93 F**d (300 I-6) has flat tappets as well, but do not know for sure.

nate

Reply to
N8N

The one that gets me is for an oil, where the ad says, because the high milage car burns more oil, it can suffer more engine damage, so you need their high milage oil.

Now, do they mean because it burns more oil, it may run out, damaging the engine? Thus their oil must be thicker so it doesn't burn/leak as fast and you won't run out?

Burning more oil per se does not really damage an engine. Foul spark plugs and converters maybe, but not the basic engine.

Reply to
Don Stauffer in Minnesota

I am amazed at how well the newer engines work. My 98 Neon has 120,000 miles and the oil consumption has just climbed to a little over a quart per 1000 miles. I used to burn that much oil on a car with 20-30 K miles!

Reply to
Don Stauffer in Minnesota

And things like the Mopar 2.2/2.5 4-banger. But most of the ones that kept flat tappets ALSO have relatively low spring pressures (OHC engines almost always have lower spring pressures than OHV engines for the same "size" of cam). Lower spring pressure mitigates the need for additives a lot.

I'd be surprised, but I could be wrong on that one. Even pedestrian old-tech engines like the Ford 302 (truck and Crown Vic versions, not just the 5.0 Mustang version), generic smallblock Chevies, and the Mopar

318 got rollers in the 80s.
Reply to
Steve

I'm amazed that you consider that "good!" Even back in the 70s, I considered a quart/1000 miles "completely worn out" except for really big-bore v8s that have a whole lot of cylinder wall area, and even then its still pretty bad. My wife's 240,000 mile Chrysler 3.5 uses about 2.5 quarts per oil change, or about a quart per 2000 miles. And a fair amount of that is leakage- I need to replace the valve cover gaskets again.

Reply to
Steve

and they're probably just fine using regular old oil and coolant and being changed at regular intervals...

I've been thinking about the old car/new car thing, and really, if you like your car, you can keep it running forever. Even rust can be fixed. I guess what happens is the maintenance costs get higher than a new car, and the new car has more toys, more power, better mileage, or all of the above and the old car gets tossed. Or, you're like my buddy who has his 72 Nova he bought in 91 and will probably still have it when he's 91.

Ray

Reply to
ray

90 Beretta. 245,000km. Doesn't require adding oil between changes. It is on it's second transmission, but the plugs I changed about two months ago looked worn but like it was a two year old car. I don't think much of the performance of the GM 3.1, but that's a tough little engine in there.

Ray

Reply to
ray

Huh??? Run the same engine oil, brake fluid with no changes?

Reply to
John S.

Well, that and when something starts to show signs of going wrong, I FIX it. I don't let things snowball into big problems.

I have yet to reach the point, even with the 400k plus mile car, where its actually more expensive than buying a new car. Think about it- using very rounded and generous numbers, a complete engine overhaul is $3000, new transmission $1000, new paint $3000, and new suspension $1000, new interior $1000. For all intents and purposes, that's a new car.

Tell me where you can get a car that you'd trust as much as one that has had all that work for less than $10k? Plus, you don't HAVE to do all that work at once. I think that for most people, though, planning and coordinating that kind of "heavy maintenance" is more thought than they want to give to a car. Most people see a car as much more of an appliance than I do.

and the new car has more toys, more power, better mileage, or all

Well, I drive brand new cars very regularly (business trips) and I drive my '66 and '73 pretty much every day. The things that appeal to me about new cars are 1) they're quiet, and 2) they get better mileage. None of them have as much power as the '66, short of something like a Charger SRT-8. And some of the toys are nice- power windows, locks, etc. But you can keep the heated/cooled seats and that kind of nonsense.

Or, you're like my buddy who

That's me. I've had that '73 with 400k miles since 1980....

Reply to
Steve

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.