Opinions and/or experience with Autozone Airtex fuel pump for '89 Toyota?

The reason is because corporate suits think engineering and manufacturing are fungible commodities. They don't value it and they see a bigger bonus for themselves by moving manufacturing to china. To them it's all the same but X costs less than Y. Not to mention that the economic central planners have done everything to favor that action from currencies to taxes as well. The reason for has nothing to do with free market and everything to do with unfree market, politics and other meddling combined with the typical fundamental ignorance and personality traits of who rises to the top in political systems such as governments and large corporations.

Are we talking corporate suits here or everyday people? Seems like you've switched back to people who have to be more concerned with having to pay the rent than buying the best made stuff. In that case, look to the devaluation of the US dollar and other economic manipulations from central planning. It's cheap crap that is currently holding people's standard of living together. Sure they may end up spending more in the long run, but they don't have the capital now to buy for the long run. You're not going to find many people driving the lowest priced Kia model because they are just buying on price but could afford to buy a new Lincoln.

The free market demands both, high quality at a low price. There are people who accept more low price than high quality, there are some who demand more high quality than low price. But those are individual decisions made on a case by case basis. When a giant sucking sound in one direction appears or some sort of bubble it means some great force is distorting the market.

As to cheap crap and regulation, when government steps in with regulation, then what is above and below the standard often becomes forbidden. The FDA does that time and time again, and when it's not forbidden to exceed the standards it's often forbidden to use that as a selling point. It is a great way to protect politically favored companies from new upstarts that want to make a better mouse trap. Example? Want to make safe raw milk? It can be done, but it's expensive. Some people will pay that premium. Guess what? It's illegal. Want to test every cow for mad cow for premium beef? That's illegal too, must follow the standard to the letter, no better, no worse.

well, there's two reasons i think. first, people want stuff cheap, and china understands that western psychology and exploits that by selling below cost in many cases for their own military/strategic reasons, not economic.

the other is our own fault - american manufacturers don't want to make a mere profit, they want to make an absolute killing. example: 60-odd years ago, the "bic" ballpoint pen hit the market - from argentina of all places. unlike its american counterparts that were selling for $10+ dollars a piece, a LOT of money at that time, bic sold theirs for cents. they controlled manufacture, they controlled costs, and they undercut everybody else. by huge margins. and they never tried to make a killing, just a good healthy profit. here we are all these decades later, and bic is still just about the largest and most ubiquitous global producer, and all gloss and marketing aside, still make the best. and you've never even heard of those "get rich quick" domestics.

Should I start listing examples?

Of course, bad quality equals going out of business, sky is blue. What are you getting at?

And when a company does it poorly, what happens? That's my point. The market punishes poor quality while you were arguing that it demands only low prices and thus the lowest possible quality. That's the mantra of central planners, control freaks, do-gooders, and other regulators who think they know what people should buy.

People buy the quality/price ratio with regards to the specific item, how they will use it, how often they will use it, its cosmetic properties, and many other factors that vary from person to person and over time. This is why free markets offer such wide selections. When the selections narrow it's time to look for a reason, for some powerful force that is distorting the market in some way. Why are we getting lots of made in china crap? Could it be that people's real wages are declining while tax, trade, and other policies, laws, and regulations favor manufacturing in China and limit what quality people can afford?

Why would that be if everyone in the US buys on price like you wrpte

You are arguing the only reason that we don't have the choice between crap and crap is because of our dear leaders in DC regulating and controlling. That's false.

Now you're getting somewhere.

They sold well until they got a reputation for being CRAP.

I'm not overlooking that at all, in fact it's the crux of my argument. That the market has been shaped. You just think it's for the better, but all the china made crap we see today is a direct result of their shaping.

That's your pro government central planning speculation. BTW, The central planners never created any of the breakthroughs that occured. Now were some implemented by government? Sure, that's how the systems are set up, to use the force of the state, it doesn't have to be that way, but that's how it's been and becoming increasingly more so that way. Has that system made us richer than the alternative? It's speculation one way or the other since we've never had the full alternative, but we can see where increasing political power over daily life is taking us. We can see what full out central planning has done in other nations.

As to driving and road systems we can see what the political system does by eliminating competition. Look at the US interstate system, compared to the German system, it's cheap crap. Look at how much better German cars are at high speed because of the lack of control freakish limits on velocity. What would have road system competition given us or even them? Imagine if the road system we got was because of what people decided to pay for instead of what was best for politics? You might think we would have dirt cart paths as they would be cheapest, but even advances in bicycles got people clammering for better roads.

Ever notice how commerical capital equipment sold to private companies is made better, holds up longer, and needs fewer repairs and can be repaired when it does? How equipment that businesses buy is designed so people can do more in less time? How might that apply to roads built and owned by the private sector? Would they hold up longer or be designed to create lots of jobs fixing and redoing roads? Would they be designed to get the most customers through per minute or left for decades with traffic jam causing design defects?

Nice strawmen. 1) The word I used was encouraged, not forced. I've already been over it in this thread. 2) I clearly stated not everything from china is crap, there is just a high likelyhood of crap.

I believe that the US government picking winners and losers was the point I was trying to make. You want the government regulating us to a better world, but what it regulates us to is usually crap. It's about insider business making the cheapest crap possible and blocking us from other choices. "Competition is a sin" or so the quote goes.

On 12/16/2010 5:51 AM, Brent wrote

How do you think the housing is made?

I'm not sure from the photographs. Some of it looks machined while other areas don't. right now, without having one in my hand I would say it's blanked close to the final dimensions with one sort of casting operation or another and then machined. the steps on the inside, the close up photos look like it was milled given the fillet at the root of each step and the sharp corner at the top. I would expect those steps to have fillets top and bottom if they were as-cast. It was clearly then put through some kind of finishing operation to give it that texture and color. The outside surface however would be very costly to achieve through machining alone to achieve that curvature and surface finish before the final texturing/finishing.

I would stay away from Airtex branded anything just based on my experiences with their aftermarket mechanical fuel pumps. They *all* leak, and one scared the hell out of me once...

~wavy lines~

I was putting together my '55 Studebaker after a motor swap to a high- compression 289; I needed a fuel pump to get it running. Friend of mine had an aftermarket Airtex pump intended for a '57 Golden Hawk sitting on the shelf. I borrowed it until I could manage to rebuild a real R1 pump for myself just to see how the car drove. Since my engine did not have a supercharger I left the boost reference fitting above the diaphragm open. Got about three miles down the road and came to a long uphill stretch. Had my foot in it pretty good and all of a sudden all this smoke comes rolling up around the holes in the floor for the pedals, around the shifter, etc. Here the stem seal on the Airtex pump was faulty and there was oil sitting on the back of the diaphragm, and once I started going up hill it sloshed out the boost reference fitting hole, and right onto the driver's side downpipe. Scared the yell out of me, it did.

I rebuilt a factory Carter R1 pump and have had no issues since.

Have heard from many, many other Studebaker owners of their disdain for Airtex pumps, mostly involving a similar problem and/or leaking of oil around the pivot pin or the pivot pin walking out in use.

Now maybe their replacement parts for more modern vehicles are better, but the uniformly crap quality of the Stude fuel pumps leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Why do you feel you need to replace the fuel pump, anyway? Is it giving any signs of impending failure?

nate

A lot of that stuff, and I haven't seen this part so I cannot address this one in particular, is die-cast and _then machined_.

This is cheaper than machining out of billet because there is less waste, but gives you machined precision. However, it limits your material characteristics somewhat.

--scott

Lets assume that be true. Are you suggesting outlawing large corporations? I know you do want to outlaw large government but this is a democracy and the majority doesn't agree with you. The average voter sees the removal of the FDA, USDA, DOD, etc would be a huge invitation for mischief, wickedness and mayhem to takeover.

Well that would be what the Lincoln dealer wants everyone to believe - but that doesn't make it true.

That is what it means to you. If you see behavior you don't like - blame the government. If you see behavior that appeals to you credit the free market. Reality plays little role in these judgments. But markets are not always benevolent like you believe. Markets have no ability to see the future they learn by disaster. The vast majority of people are not willing to take the risks that an absolutely free market creates. It takes a crop failure for farmers to get the market price they need. So people starve for a year and then the next year more food is grown and the marketplace has done its thing. That in a nutshell explains why the US grows a large surplus of food. There are massive government programs to ensure that over-supply continues to exist. The alternative - occasional opportunity to go hungry - is not what most people are into.

That is a fair characterization of the incentives the government puts in place to control that part of the market. However, a person can legally procure raw milk and tested beef if the person really wants to make the effort. Most folks don't.

Thanks for the info. I can't say if there's a coating on it or not or how the finish surface is achieved. The edges feel as if there's no coating nor are there any wearing through of the coating. The home button on the glass surface is so well integrated that it seems to be one piece although that's not possible. I have seen this on other plastic pieces before - the material is so stable and the clearances so small that the seams are invisible. Beautiful stuff.

You could be right about this - it does seem more sensible. :-)

I'm not going to sit here answering your strawmanish questions. Seriously, I was pretty damn clear that what I favor is free markets where government doesn't take sides or give companies or corporations small or large advantages. If that's how you're going to open the rest isn't worth my time.

It doesn't look like coating, more of a tumbling or blasting type process.

You are paranoid. It is the market that is buying Chines goods. The government could impose tariffs. It could bomb China too. Just because the government refrains from bombing China you interpret that as helping China?

I wrote that some people would buy it.

No I think you are just misinterpreting reality

I didn't say I think it is for the better. I said if it were to disappear the majority would disapprove. I mean suppose they just dumped the TSA and said " we don't need that - let the free market take care of security". Now that would get some people thrown out of Washington. I don't consider myself part of that majority but that doesn't mean I'm going to share your delusions.

It's not mine. It's the majorities.

The alternative would be mostly dirt roads.

HA HA HA . Like Germany's free market system built their roads. You are a hoot. And of course you arrived at this because you like no speed limits and therefore you conclude it must come from the free market.

So that's it. This whole government thing is just a grand elaborate scheme to keep you from driving fast. Remove speed limits and we would never hear from you again. Sounds like a plan - I'd vote for that.

Exactly. And what does clamoring get from the free market? How many bicycle paths did the free market build as a result of this clamoring?

Yup. People are still clamoring. And the free market is still not going to do squat.

It doesn't matter if all of it or none of it is crap. People are buying it. Your claim that the government is behind it is strictly a result of your belief that anything you don't like must be caused by government. I don't have to approve of what the government does to see the stupidity of that position.

When did I say I want the government regulating anything? I'm just pointing out how stupid you are to believe that if the government were to stop regulating the markets most of your fellow Americans would not approve. If they found out you were the cause of it they would use their new won freedom to string you up from a lamp post.

Of course I have a mental illness because I don't see things the politically correct way. Like in many tyrannies and empires those who don't agree are mentally ill.

Still it at with the strawman questions. I suggest you actually look up a few things with regard to trade with China. First look into the most favored nation status, then look into the peg between china's currency and the federal reserve note, aka US dollar. Then look into the taxes and tarriffs and trade agreements. Then look into the regulatory environment US manufacturing has to live in. Keep going... look up China's domestic content laws to sell product there. Oh and don't forget, China is exempt from the carbon and energy taxes proposed for the world, its exempt from CO2 limits as well. Oh and look further to how China's government lets buisnesses foul the air and water and otherwise run right over people. All these regulations, laws, agreements, taxes, etc and so forth created by the US government, the government of China, world bodies, treaties and more result in conditions that favor manufacturing in China. When you figure out many of the ways manufacturing in china is encouraged, come back and I might pay further attention to what you have to say.

When there is a distortion you should look to find why that distortion is there instead of just thinking people love to buy cheap crap and I don't know what your solution to it is, but it sounds like you want to regulate products such that cheap crap can no longer be sold. that products that don't meet your quality standards are removed from the market. That's great. What are the people who can't afford your minimum going to do? Eat cake? We go back to a system where craftspeople make very expensive and high quality goods for the wealthy and everyone else does without? Think about that a little.

Once again, your opening tells me I I've already spent too much time with you.

Really? The gov't doesn't require a warranty. In the old days, the warranties were 12,000 mi or 1 year, and only gradually went up.

Jeff

If you weren't so paranoid you would grasp that I am not a tyrannical emperor, just nobody making a casual observation.

All of that is nonsense. There are no carbon limits or carbon taxes and who doesn't have Most Favored Nation Status besides a few countries like Cuba, Iran and N. Korea? The goods coming from China are subject to the same laws in regard to safety defects, warranty and fraud claims etc. US manufacturing is still the largest in the world and has been growing continuously ever since WW2.

Sounds like you want to impose tariffs against China. Doesn't take much to get you to abandon the idea of free trade.

I don't think there is a solution. Should the government step in to tell people what to buy?

No you are misreading both reality and what I said about it. I did point out that the government regulation of the auto industry and transportation in general has raised prices of the automobile. But there is more to it than that. Without the government to build and facilitate the infrastructure and resource management we wouldn't have this massive economy built around the automobile. I never said that was a good thing. It is what it is. Although one can argue that the dependence on the automobile and the sprawling suburbs it spawned eventually may become a liability, it is also easy to argue the free market would never have got where it is alone.

Toyota fuel pumps rarely fail. Leave the fuel pump alone, check the spark plugs, high tension wires, ATF, brakes, tires, battery, etc. instead.

output in dollar terms per worker has gone up continuously, but total output has not. and manufacturing employment has dropped from nearly

20MM in 1980 to about 12MM today. if you start getting into the analysis of /what/ that employment is, it gets even worse, with the militarily strategically important sectors of electronics, communications and even aerospace being seriously undermined.

"Ray O" wrote in news:ieeq9k$pm9$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

Which is pretty much what I told him. Along with accessory drive belts (one of which drives the water pump), rad hoses, and other important stuff.